Thoughts on Iron Man 2 / Captain America Characters
On Wednesday, I went to see The Avengers again, with ice_Elf. And then we went again yesterday. :D And it was epic and awesome every time! (So technically, because we saw an afternoon showing yesterday and I saw a late evening showing last weekend - I've seen it three times in one week ...) I seriously can't wait for the DVD!
But. There are a few things that just don't make sense to me about Iron Man 2 and Captain America and timelines and ages and things. So I'm going to rant. And attempt to somehow work out how things fit together. If anyone with actual knowledge of these things wants to come forward and explain to me how this works, please do!
Non-specific/relatively unimportant spoilers for Iron Man 2 and Captain America and maybe Avengers under the cut.
I shall start at the beginning. Captain America takes place in 1942/1943 (according to Wikipedia; I can't fact-check this myself as I don't have it on DVD). Howard Stark was alive and old enough to be working on weapons and technology for the war effort. The absolute youngest he can be, realistically speaking, is in his early 20s.
Steve is supposedly 22/23 in Captain America, again according to Wikipedia and the comic book canon. I am terrible at guessing ages, but I think Howard looks/acts a bit older than Steve. Dominic Cooper, who played Howard Stark, was in his early 30s at the time - so let's randomly project that Howard Stark was 30 in 1942.
That puts Howard Stark's birth year at 1912.
The first Stark Expo was in 1974. We know this from Iron Man 2. At this point in time, Tony Stark was a small child - from that glimpse of him we get, I would have said he's between 7 and 10. However, I just looked up the kid who played little!Tony and he was 6 at the time. So I'm going to go with 6.
Tony Stark was therefore born in 1968.
Making Tony 40 in Iron Man, 42 in Iron Man 2 and 44 in Avengers. Fine. (He seems slightly younger than that, late-30s rather than early/mid-40s, but whatever. RDJ was born in 1965, so that makes a kind of sense. Also, this is assuming that the films take place in 'real time', which I personally believe they do. It makes sense with the canon we have: in Avengers, Coulson or Fury says that Thor took place a year ago, and Thor came out in 2011.)
It would also make Tony more than 22 years old when his parents died. In 2010 (during the events of Iron Man 2), Tony says that his father has been "dead almost 20 years and still taking [him] to school". Which means he must have died after 1990. Tony was 22 in 1990. But according to the Wikipedia character info on Tony in the Iron Man page (and I am quoting here): "[Tony] takes charge of Stark Industries at the age of 21 from Stane, who had been in control of the company since Howard's death."
So that makes sense, right? :|
But really, that's not the huge problem. It's kind of a minor thing - he could be 5 in that video, and maybe Tony has lost track of time a bit about how long his parents have been dead for (unlikely, but ...). That would push everything back just far enough to make sense, I suppose. The biggest problem here is Howard Stark.
If Tony was born in 1968, that means that Howard Stark was 56 when his first/only son was born (if we project his birth year to be 1912). Which seems ... unlikely to me. Highly unlikely.
It also makes him 62 when the Stark Expo happened. He ... really does not look 62! He maybe looks late 40s/early 50s at a push. (The guy who plays him was only 46 when they filmed Iron Man 2!)
Of course, we could use the actor who plays him in Iron Man 2 as our base-line for age. So he would be 46 in 1974. Which would make his birth year 1928. Which would make him 14 in 1942 ...
So, the question becomes just how young can we make Howard Stark in Captain America. I guess, if he's anything like Tony (who apparently went to MIT at 15 and graduated at 17, thank you Wikipedia), he would have started early. But I don't want to actually make him younger than Steve Rogers. Also, he's working on highly experimental/classified stuff - so even if he is a genius/prodigy, he probably had to work with the military (etc) for a couple of years before this to prove he could do the work and was trustworthy. (I also just do not believe that Howard is younger than Steve. The same age, possibly, but no way younger.) So I suppose the latest he could've been born was 1920 - making him 22/23 in Captain America.
Which still makes him 54 for the Stark Expo and 48 for Tony's birth. Still kind of old! But it makes a little bit more sense.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is: Howard Stark's timeline makes no sense! And this BOTHERS ME!
I get how it would have worked originally, because Iron Man originally appeared in the early 60s. So it makes sense to have a character in his 20s/30s/40s living in the 1960s with a parent who was working on the war effort in the 40s. (Heck, in the original comics, Howard Stark was working with the military in WWI, let alone WWII!) But now ...
I just feel that it would've made far more sense to replace Howard Stark with Tony's grandfather. (I genuinely thought that was what they'd actually done for a while!)
I'm going to stop taking all of this too seriously now. But if anyone can come up with a plausible timeline/explanation, please do tell me all about it!
.
But. There are a few things that just don't make sense to me about Iron Man 2 and Captain America and timelines and ages and things. So I'm going to rant. And attempt to somehow work out how things fit together. If anyone with actual knowledge of these things wants to come forward and explain to me how this works, please do!
Non-specific/relatively unimportant spoilers for Iron Man 2 and Captain America and maybe Avengers under the cut.
I shall start at the beginning. Captain America takes place in 1942/1943 (according to Wikipedia; I can't fact-check this myself as I don't have it on DVD). Howard Stark was alive and old enough to be working on weapons and technology for the war effort. The absolute youngest he can be, realistically speaking, is in his early 20s.
Steve is supposedly 22/23 in Captain America, again according to Wikipedia and the comic book canon. I am terrible at guessing ages, but I think Howard looks/acts a bit older than Steve. Dominic Cooper, who played Howard Stark, was in his early 30s at the time - so let's randomly project that Howard Stark was 30 in 1942.
That puts Howard Stark's birth year at 1912.
The first Stark Expo was in 1974. We know this from Iron Man 2. At this point in time, Tony Stark was a small child - from that glimpse of him we get, I would have said he's between 7 and 10. However, I just looked up the kid who played little!Tony and he was 6 at the time. So I'm going to go with 6.
Tony Stark was therefore born in 1968.
Making Tony 40 in Iron Man, 42 in Iron Man 2 and 44 in Avengers. Fine. (He seems slightly younger than that, late-30s rather than early/mid-40s, but whatever. RDJ was born in 1965, so that makes a kind of sense. Also, this is assuming that the films take place in 'real time', which I personally believe they do. It makes sense with the canon we have: in Avengers, Coulson or Fury says that Thor took place a year ago, and Thor came out in 2011.)
It would also make Tony more than 22 years old when his parents died. In 2010 (during the events of Iron Man 2), Tony says that his father has been "dead almost 20 years and still taking [him] to school". Which means he must have died after 1990. Tony was 22 in 1990. But according to the Wikipedia character info on Tony in the Iron Man page (and I am quoting here): "[Tony] takes charge of Stark Industries at the age of 21 from Stane, who had been in control of the company since Howard's death."
So that makes sense, right? :|
But really, that's not the huge problem. It's kind of a minor thing - he could be 5 in that video, and maybe Tony has lost track of time a bit about how long his parents have been dead for (unlikely, but ...). That would push everything back just far enough to make sense, I suppose. The biggest problem here is Howard Stark.
If Tony was born in 1968, that means that Howard Stark was 56 when his first/only son was born (if we project his birth year to be 1912). Which seems ... unlikely to me. Highly unlikely.
It also makes him 62 when the Stark Expo happened. He ... really does not look 62! He maybe looks late 40s/early 50s at a push. (The guy who plays him was only 46 when they filmed Iron Man 2!)
Of course, we could use the actor who plays him in Iron Man 2 as our base-line for age. So he would be 46 in 1974. Which would make his birth year 1928. Which would make him 14 in 1942 ...
So, the question becomes just how young can we make Howard Stark in Captain America. I guess, if he's anything like Tony (who apparently went to MIT at 15 and graduated at 17, thank you Wikipedia), he would have started early. But I don't want to actually make him younger than Steve Rogers. Also, he's working on highly experimental/classified stuff - so even if he is a genius/prodigy, he probably had to work with the military (etc) for a couple of years before this to prove he could do the work and was trustworthy. (I also just do not believe that Howard is younger than Steve. The same age, possibly, but no way younger.) So I suppose the latest he could've been born was 1920 - making him 22/23 in Captain America.
Which still makes him 54 for the Stark Expo and 48 for Tony's birth. Still kind of old! But it makes a little bit more sense.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is: Howard Stark's timeline makes no sense! And this BOTHERS ME!
I get how it would have worked originally, because Iron Man originally appeared in the early 60s. So it makes sense to have a character in his 20s/30s/40s living in the 1960s with a parent who was working on the war effort in the 40s. (Heck, in the original comics, Howard Stark was working with the military in WWI, let alone WWII!) But now ...
I just feel that it would've made far more sense to replace Howard Stark with Tony's grandfather. (I genuinely thought that was what they'd actually done for a while!)
I'm going to stop taking all of this too seriously now. But if anyone can come up with a plausible timeline/explanation, please do tell me all about it!
.