The Essential Female PrivelegequaleOctober 17 2009, 20:43:50 UTC
Is that women aren't seen as pathetic/whiney/etc.. for suggesting that you have it worse than men in some way.
This is the central problem with arguments claiming to show this kind of imbalance. I mean when you list not having your bad driving blamed on your gender as a benefit to being a man (though why this should be bad is beyond me. Given that you are a bad driver it's presumably less of a negative reflection if it's the result of factors beyond your control...seems to me this is a classic case of being confused by conditionalization) people agree and try to indicate their distaste for the situation. On the other hand if a guy lists "Not having your poor personal hygiene blamed on your gender" as a benefit to being a girl people will crack jokes about how tough it must be and dismiss anyone who complains as a whiner or sexist.
The problem is that men are inclined to show sympathy/empathy with women who experience some difficulty (gets them dates) but inclined to laugh off the difficulties of other guys to signal they are tough or somehow immune from that problem. I would argue this is actually the result of the evolutionary pressure on women to secure a man who would continue to provide before mating but the reason is really irrelevant. Just watch any group of men and women interact for awhile and see how they respond to stupid stuff done by men vs. stupid stuff done by women. If a guy trips and falls the other men are way more likely to laugh than if a woman trips and falls. Moreover, if people laugh at a girl when she trips and she gets upset about it usually some kind of apologies will follow while a guy will be told to stop being a wuss and suck it up.
So ultimately this kind of informal list is utterly useless for showing women somehow have it worse. We come with built in blinders that cause us to take the very same complaints made by men as pathetic whining so we unfairly give them too little weight.
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Ultimately the fundamental absurdity of looking at these lists is illustrated by the very point you raise. No, girls don't come up to guys on the street and say, "smile," or try to cheer us up. However, guys would largely appreciate this kind of attention from girls. We want girls to come up to us and inflict their attentions on us. Even men who are in monogamous relationships and won't even consciously flirt will find themselves walking with a bit more spring in their step after attention from a random girl. It's the way a girl might feel if someone she thought was really cute (say a TV star she had a crush on) stopped briefly on the street to flash her a smile and say, "hey, don't be said."
The same could be said about calling "not being considered selfish for staying home with the kids" (statistically I suspect guys would rather not be considered selfish for choosing to pursue a career) and a huge number of other entries on the list. Just because they are something (statistically speaking) your gender would view as a benefit doesn't mean they are something that the other gender would as well.
Also looking at lists of annoyances avoids the elephant in the room. Men are substantially more likely to be depressed, die younger, and be socially isolated than women. Depression and social isolation are things known to have huge negative effects on quality of life and I suggest you ask yourself how many "smile" comments would you trade for an extra (quality) week of life?
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Ohh, and you know exactly how I feel about the attractiveness complaints. Once again the issue is that men win by showing they are high status and powerful so they shoot themselves in the foot if they complain no women will date them because of their shitty job. Men and women are in the same boat here, except that at least you get to complain about it while we have to put on a brave face and pretend it doesn't bother us.
Re: The Essential Female PrivelegeauddessOctober 17 2009, 21:26:00 UTC
"So ultimately this kind of informal list is utterly useless for showing women somehow have it worse. We come with built in blinders that cause us to take the very same complaints made by men as pathetic whining so we unfairly give them too little weight."
Anecdotal list != proof. (I mostly posted the list just to show where I got the smile thing from)
Re: The Essential Female PrivelegequaleOctober 18 2009, 17:18:05 UTC
I know it's not proof, my point is that it's worse than a normal anecdote. With normal ancedotes we might worry that we have a bias that makes us remember one sort of event more than another. Here we have a situation where even when actually presented with ancedotes going the other way we dismiss them (at best) or even regard them as the opposite sort of evidence.
This is the central problem with arguments claiming to show this kind of imbalance. I mean when you list not having your bad driving blamed on your gender as a benefit to being a man (though why this should be bad is beyond me. Given that you are a bad driver it's presumably less of a negative reflection if it's the result of factors beyond your control...seems to me this is a classic case of being confused by conditionalization) people agree and try to indicate their distaste for the situation. On the other hand if a guy lists "Not having your poor personal hygiene blamed on your gender" as a benefit to being a girl people will crack jokes about how tough it must be and dismiss anyone who complains as a whiner or sexist.
The problem is that men are inclined to show sympathy/empathy with women who experience some difficulty (gets them dates) but inclined to laugh off the difficulties of other guys to signal they are tough or somehow immune from that problem. I would argue this is actually the result of the evolutionary pressure on women to secure a man who would continue to provide before mating but the reason is really irrelevant. Just watch any group of men and women interact for awhile and see how they respond to stupid stuff done by men vs. stupid stuff done by women. If a guy trips and falls the other men are way more likely to laugh than if a woman trips and falls. Moreover, if people laugh at a girl when she trips and she gets upset about it usually some kind of apologies will follow while a guy will be told to stop being a wuss and suck it up.
So ultimately this kind of informal list is utterly useless for showing women somehow have it worse. We come with built in blinders that cause us to take the very same complaints made by men as pathetic whining so we unfairly give them too little weight.
-----
Ultimately the fundamental absurdity of looking at these lists is illustrated by the very point you raise. No, girls don't come up to guys on the street and say, "smile," or try to cheer us up. However, guys would largely appreciate this kind of attention from girls. We want girls to come up to us and inflict their attentions on us. Even men who are in monogamous relationships and won't even consciously flirt will find themselves walking with a bit more spring in their step after attention from a random girl. It's the way a girl might feel if someone she thought was really cute (say a TV star she had a crush on) stopped briefly on the street to flash her a smile and say, "hey, don't be said."
The same could be said about calling "not being considered selfish for staying home with the kids" (statistically I suspect guys would rather not be considered selfish for choosing to pursue a career) and a huge number of other entries on the list. Just because they are something (statistically speaking) your gender would view as a benefit doesn't mean they are something that the other gender would as well.
Also looking at lists of annoyances avoids the elephant in the room. Men are substantially more likely to be depressed, die younger, and be socially isolated than women. Depression and social isolation are things known to have huge negative effects on quality of life and I suggest you ask yourself how many "smile" comments would you trade for an extra (quality) week of life?
---
Ohh, and you know exactly how I feel about the attractiveness complaints. Once again the issue is that men win by showing they are high status and powerful so they shoot themselves in the foot if they complain no women will date them because of their shitty job. Men and women are in the same boat here, except that at least you get to complain about it while we have to put on a brave face and pretend it doesn't bother us.
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Anecdotal list != proof. (I mostly posted the list just to show where I got the smile thing from)
Maybe later I'll follow up on the smile thing.
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