I do like this show. Tim and Matt are great at their characters - I don't slash them like most of the fandom seems to. But I think they're great as those characters and love their friendship. Don't really ship anything but the cannon here, but to each their own. And the Neal/Sarah relationship is fun *g*. I also can't wait to see Dianne's girlfriend some day - or rather I hope we do.
I don't slash them like most of the fandom seems to. But I think they're great as those characters and love their friendship.
Yeah, I don't slash them at all, but then again, I'm someone who doesn't slash guys just because they have a great friendship. There's nothing wrong with a completely platonic, beautiful friendship between two guys ... and these two have that. It doesn't need to be more. (Now someone like Merlin and Arthur on the other hand ... LOL!)
And the Neal/Sarah relationship is fun *g*. I also can't wait to see Dianne's girlfriend some day - or rather I hope we do.
I get that. I ship or slash in roughly equal measure and pretty often but if there isn't one that I see it isn't like I try to make one up in my head. Friendship relationships are just as great even if fandom doesn't explore them as much. And I think they could potentially open up a whole other door of things to go look at and write about if the fans wanted to.
I'm a giant Trekkie, and one of my fave things in Trek is the Kirk/Spock relationship. And I love the word t'hy'la and think it's them, well it was invented by Gene to describe them, and they're the most important people in each other's lives. But I don't think it's sexual in any way and I don't think it's romantic, either. But most of the fic really exploring that is slashing them. And cause I take that t'hy'la approach it still sits odd with me when they're slashed or shipped with others lol.
But yeah, friendships can be a massive thing, just as important and full of love as romantic or familial relationships.
GOD, YES!!! Star Trek is the first one that pops into mind for me. I ADORE the Spock/Kirk friendship. It's so beautiful. In another thread a way back on my lj, this very topic came up. I said to someone about S/K --
Spock and Kirk (and Spock and McCoy, Kirk and McCoy) are FRIENDS, best, true friends who love each other deeply ... but NOT IN A SEXUAL WAY.
Sometimes? A cigar really is just a friggin' cigar.:
And cloudydaise's response was perfect:"SPOCK/KIRK IS THE MOST PERFECT EXAMPLE. I love them both individually, and I love them DEARLY as friends. I can take small doses of jokes when it comes to them being in love with each other as long as it is accompanied with an unspoken "haha well, not really." But what you said about everyone automatically shipping them because they're friends who deeply care about each other cheapening it is SO TRUE. It seriously upsets me, because these characters are legendary, and forcing them into a relationship that is unnatural to the way they were CONCEIVED and WRITTEN for AGES... well, it makes me
( ... )
I think some people just see the romance and sexual side of things in that. Some will go for that just for jollies which does cheapen it, but some honestly do see it and that's fair enough I think
( ... )
I mean, me being me I'm pretty used to talking about sexual attraction and romantic attraction as different things, but also to know people to whom being extremely close to a person doesn't even denote romantic attraction.I agree so completely with this. I am such a romantic, couple-girl at heart, but at the same time, there is such a beauty in something like 'brothers in all but blood,' that I feel gets lost in this internet-slash-happy world. And I'm not coming down on slashers at all, or saying all are like that. Someone very close to me is a HUGE slasher, and through her, I'm very aware of the slash world in fandom
( ... )
DENNY CRANE AND ALAN SHORE, FTW!! THEY GOT MARRIED IN THE LAST EPISODE AND IT WAS PERFECTION! It wasn't romantic or sexual, but it was absolutely beautiful. Yes, I LOVE IT SO MUCH!
He's good at it too, I have to say.
So agree, re: the Shat.
I did want to say in regards to my last post, I really don't intend (even with just my opinion, in my personal livejournal -- to anyone else reading this) to step on anyone's toes. We all have our opinions, and our reasons for loving or not loving something. I just wish, personally, that platonic love between same sexes could be celebrated and appreciated a bit more in fandom. :)
Oh yeah, if people honestly see a relationship as such and aren't just projecting a need to make everything sexual and/or romantic that's fine. People link this with slashers the most, but a ton of shippers do it too I think. I mean, the TV show Will & Grace? I remember browsing the internet and coming across a giant hive of Will/Grace shippers. Which made me boggle eyed. Or some people shipped Daniel/Sam in SG-1 for them being really close and that alone it seemed, at times
( ... )
It isn't just slash, true, and I'm sure that some would say Sheldon/Penny shippers (of The Big Bang Theory, which I'm a huge fan of) are like that too. But the writers actually put them in numerous episodes which (even jokingly) hint at some sexual side to it, and the actors have ridiculous chemistry so it doesn't come out of nowhere. Yes, yes, Sheldon is asexual in many ways, but again, there have been sight gags, and jokes, and moments and things that were it any other male/female pairing would indicate that a romance was coming. So the delusion does have some basis in reality. Now, with Will & Grace), yes, they had great chemistry, BUT, dude, HE WAS GAY! SHE IS A GIRL! THEY WERE PLATONIC BEST FRIENDS! HELLO!?!?! LOL!
And in the Tron fandom, that's one of my big fears. That slash will take over and the friendships and 'bromances' wont be explored in depth as a result.
I haven't seen Tron, but if there are deep friendships/bromances in their, I sadly fear it may happen. Sorry. :(
To be fair, being asexual doesn't mean being aromantic or, y'know, none of us would ever fall in love. But I don't tend to see Sheldon as all that romantic and though he and Penny have an interesting relationship and chemistry I never saw it as anything romantic. Not entirely sure he isn't aromantic though, I have to say, and if he's more than demiromantic I'll be shocked.
Not that the writers have ever heard of those terms.
Yeah, couldn't agree with you more on the Will and Grace thing, platonic best friends.
Oooo, you have got to see Tron, and Tron: Legacy. It's pretty awesome. There's not much time for exploration of friendships but you see the shadows and shapes and impressions and foundations of it in them so... probably will happen though. Did in Trek. I've resigned myself to Kirk/Spock slash if only because they're the only ones exploring that relationship in that depth. I just block out the sex and anything that crosses over from platonic soul mates and into romantic ones too much. May have to do the same here.
Right, and honestly, I don't think Sheldon is asexual either. I think he just doesn't WANT to be sexual, and mind over matter and his mind is extremely disciplined, LOL!
I'm not sure about Tron, it doesn't sound like my cup of tea, but I'll give it a try sometime. :)
I do see him as asexual, really very asexual. They've joked about it more than a few times if not using the actual word they have played on it. I don't think it's him making himself try not to care, I think it's just that he doesn't. The romantic thing I think may be a case of him thinking he'll never have it because nobody will be up to his standards, and also in part him honestly not considering it or feeling it to be the most important or all that important thing. Though he seems to get it in regards to other people, just not personally. Which strikes me as pretty familiar.
The asexual community holds him up as one of the few asexuals on TV world wide so I'm a bit familiar with him lol.
But each see it differently so... *shrugs* Even if to me it's a big part of who he is it isn't for everyone, and not everyone else has the same investment in the idea that I do.
I can't see it because not only the Pilot, but also "Adhesive Duck Deficiency," he had reactions there, albeit, the latter featured more like a teenage boy, but still, it was there.
But each see it differently so... *shrugs* Even if to me it's a big part of who he is it isn't for everyone, and not everyone else has the same investment in the idea that I do.
Very much agreed.
(Wow, we've really gone off-topic from WC, hee, but this has been fun!)
Oooo, I've thought on it and you probably mean the sperm donation scene and the fact that Sheldon would have to, ah, get himself off in order to do it?
Yeah, I've heard that. No idea why people think that - then again one of the more common reactions when you tell someone you're asexuals 'do you masturbate?' and some seem to assume we don't. Well, true for some. Others do. And even for those who don't, it isn't like it's because we're biologically broken and I'm sure Sheldon could do the, ah, required stuff to get the correct bodily reaction for donation if he so wanted.
So.... yeah. Um, that scene doesn't actually prove anything.
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Yeah, I don't slash them at all, but then again, I'm someone who doesn't slash guys just because they have a great friendship. There's nothing wrong with a completely platonic, beautiful friendship between two guys ... and these two have that. It doesn't need to be more. (Now someone like Merlin and Arthur on the other hand ... LOL!)
And the Neal/Sarah relationship is fun *g*. I also can't wait to see Dianne's girlfriend some day - or rather I hope we do.
This. And this!
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I'm a giant Trekkie, and one of my fave things in Trek is the Kirk/Spock relationship. And I love the word t'hy'la and think it's them, well it was invented by Gene to describe them, and they're the most important people in each other's lives. But I don't think it's sexual in any way and I don't think it's romantic, either. But most of the fic really exploring that is slashing them. And cause I take that t'hy'la approach it still sits odd with me when they're slashed or shipped with others lol.
But yeah, friendships can be a massive thing, just as important and full of love as romantic or familial relationships.
I'm with you on the Merlin/Arthur thing *g*
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Spock and Kirk (and Spock and McCoy, Kirk and McCoy) are FRIENDS, best, true friends who love each other deeply ... but NOT IN A SEXUAL WAY.
Sometimes? A cigar really is just a friggin' cigar.:
And cloudydaise's response was perfect:"SPOCK/KIRK IS THE MOST PERFECT EXAMPLE. I love them both individually, and I love them DEARLY as friends. I can take small doses of jokes when it comes to them being in love with each other as long as it is accompanied with an unspoken "haha well, not really." But what you said about everyone automatically shipping them because they're friends who deeply care about each other cheapening it is SO TRUE. It seriously upsets me, because these characters are legendary, and forcing them into a relationship that is unnatural to the way they were CONCEIVED and WRITTEN for AGES... well, it makes me ( ... )
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He's good at it too, I have to say.
So agree, re: the Shat.
I did want to say in regards to my last post, I really don't intend (even with just my opinion, in my personal livejournal -- to anyone else reading this) to step on anyone's toes. We all have our opinions, and our reasons for loving or not loving something. I just wish, personally, that platonic love between same sexes could be celebrated and appreciated a bit more in fandom. :)
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It isn't just slash, true, and I'm sure that some would say Sheldon/Penny shippers (of The Big Bang Theory, which I'm a huge fan of) are like that too. But the writers actually put them in numerous episodes which (even jokingly) hint at some sexual side to it, and the actors have ridiculous chemistry so it doesn't come out of nowhere. Yes, yes, Sheldon is asexual in many ways, but again, there have been sight gags, and jokes, and moments and things that were it any other male/female pairing would indicate that a romance was coming. So the delusion does have some basis in reality. Now, with Will & Grace), yes, they had great chemistry, BUT, dude, HE WAS GAY! SHE IS A GIRL! THEY WERE PLATONIC BEST FRIENDS! HELLO!?!?! LOL!
And in the Tron fandom, that's one of my big fears. That slash will take over and the friendships and 'bromances' wont be explored in depth as a result.
I haven't seen Tron, but if there are deep friendships/bromances in their, I sadly fear it may happen. Sorry. :(
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Not that the writers have ever heard of those terms.
Yeah, couldn't agree with you more on the Will and Grace thing, platonic best friends.
Oooo, you have got to see Tron, and Tron: Legacy. It's pretty awesome. There's not much time for exploration of friendships but you see the shadows and shapes and impressions and foundations of it in them so... probably will happen though. Did in Trek. I've resigned myself to Kirk/Spock slash if only because they're the only ones exploring that relationship in that depth. I just block out the sex and anything that crosses over from platonic soul mates and into romantic ones too much. May have to do the same here.
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I'm not sure about Tron, it doesn't sound like my cup of tea, but I'll give it a try sometime. :)
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The asexual community holds him up as one of the few asexuals on TV world wide so I'm a bit familiar with him lol.
But each see it differently so... *shrugs* Even if to me it's a big part of who he is it isn't for everyone, and not everyone else has the same investment in the idea that I do.
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But each see it differently so... *shrugs* Even if to me it's a big part of who he is it isn't for everyone, and not everyone else has the same investment in the idea that I do.
Very much agreed.
(Wow, we've really gone off-topic from WC, hee, but this has been fun!)
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Don't know the second reference either, actually. I am really really bad with names even with fandoms I'm big into.
And yeah, way off topic but heh, who cares?
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Yeah, I've heard that. No idea why people think that - then again one of the more common reactions when you tell someone you're asexuals 'do you masturbate?' and some seem to assume we don't. Well, true for some. Others do. And even for those who don't, it isn't like it's because we're biologically broken and I'm sure Sheldon could do the, ah, required stuff to get the correct bodily reaction for donation if he so wanted.
So.... yeah. Um, that scene doesn't actually prove anything.
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