I mean, me being me I'm pretty used to talking about sexual attraction and romantic attraction as different things, but also to know people to whom being extremely close to a person doesn't even denote romantic attraction.
I agree so completely with this. I am such a romantic, couple-girl at heart, but at the same time, there is such a beauty in something like 'brothers in all but blood,' that I feel gets lost in this internet-slash-happy world. And I'm not coming down on slashers at all, or saying all are like that. Someone very close to me is a HUGE slasher, and through her, I'm very aware of the slash world in fandom.
It's not my thing, but I don't see anything wrong with it (thank you, Seinfeld), it does bug me however when it's applied to EVERY deep friendship or relationship between two same sex characters on television/movies/books ... when there's no wink, wink, nudge, nudge, and is clearly not intended, and not there in the subtext. (Ie, Merlin/Arthur SO is -- I mean, "Is your little bottom sore?" COME ON! Sherlock/Watson in the RDJ/JL movie? You can practically see RDJ leering in some of their scenes. However, it's not always there, and that's when it frustrates me. If there's no intention, there's no intention, if there is nothing in the text, or subtext and you're just going for it because, as you said, for jollies, than it does cheapen it, in my opinion.
Yeah, I'll slash. I do slash. I slash a fair bit but no forcing it.
I think in the Sherlock Holmes movie, even the director was trying to get Jude and RDJ to town it down and was telling them, and this is almost a direct quote from RDJ to 'play it even close to straight'. So, yeah, that's there. Or Due South actually, with Fraser/RayK - Paul Gross who was the producer during the seasons with RayK actually said in an interview that the slashers would love it and played it up more than a few times, and the ending of the show..... that was as close to cannon as you can get without them literally saying 'I love you romantically and want to marry you'.
I'm demiromantic personally, demi-biromantic actually, but I'm all for others being romantic and can be a bit of a sap in that regard. The entire John/Delenn thing in Babylon 5 just.... but I agree, no point forcing it in where there's no sign of it. Just to have it. And because most people are sexual rather than asexual where there's romance there's sex. Cause to have romance one must have sex *rolls eyes*.
It's nice seeing relationships that don't go down that path but still mean just as much.
Have you ever seen Boston Legal? There's a relationship on there between Denny Crane and Alan Shore. Slashers in the fandom are probably all over it. They are very very close, went to a party together dressed as flamingos, regularly express their love for one another and are comfortable with it. I don't want to spoil the last episode but it goes in that direction. But that love is entirely platonic. It's deep, the levels of trust and devotion and importance to each other and.... everything. Everything you'd think of as leading to one of the most epic romances in fandom. Except for any kind of romance or sex.
Funnily enough, Denny is played by William Shatner. He's good at it too, I have to say. But that's basically the second time he's played a person in a non-romantic/sexual t'hy'la relationship now.
DENNY CRANE AND ALAN SHORE, FTW!! THEY GOT MARRIED IN THE LAST EPISODE AND IT WAS PERFECTION! It wasn't romantic or sexual, but it was absolutely beautiful. Yes, I LOVE IT SO MUCH!
He's good at it too, I have to say.
So agree, re: the Shat.
I did want to say in regards to my last post, I really don't intend (even with just my opinion, in my personal livejournal -- to anyone else reading this) to step on anyone's toes. We all have our opinions, and our reasons for loving or not loving something. I just wish, personally, that platonic love between same sexes could be celebrated and appreciated a bit more in fandom. :)
Oh yeah, if people honestly see a relationship as such and aren't just projecting a need to make everything sexual and/or romantic that's fine. People link this with slashers the most, but a ton of shippers do it too I think. I mean, the TV show Will & Grace? I remember browsing the internet and coming across a giant hive of Will/Grace shippers. Which made me boggle eyed. Or some people shipped Daniel/Sam in SG-1 for them being really close and that alone it seemed, at times.
Cause the only thing needed to ship/slash any pairing is for them to be close. Or ever in the same room. Or even just exist for some.
And some friendships I just want to see explored like that and I get so sad and tired in trying to find that and not being able to. So very tired.
And in the Tron fandom, that's one of my big fears. That slash will take over and the friendships and 'bromances' wont be explored in depth as a result.
You saw the show then? I LOVED THAT EPISODE! I about fell off my chair laughing, couldn't breath, when Denny proposed. Cause he's this big Republican but..... anyway. But then it was just really sweet and touching in the typical hilarious and insane sort of way anything to do with them is. It was perfect and beautiful. And I'm pretty impressed the writers did that, to be honest. And did their entire relationship like that. So so impressed, it was great.
Now, on the actual slash side, if only we could get some sort of Due South sequel where Fraser/RayK is now official, or go back in time and fix Ianto/Jack...
It isn't just slash, true, and I'm sure that some would say Sheldon/Penny shippers (of The Big Bang Theory, which I'm a huge fan of) are like that too. But the writers actually put them in numerous episodes which (even jokingly) hint at some sexual side to it, and the actors have ridiculous chemistry so it doesn't come out of nowhere. Yes, yes, Sheldon is asexual in many ways, but again, there have been sight gags, and jokes, and moments and things that were it any other male/female pairing would indicate that a romance was coming. So the delusion does have some basis in reality. Now, with Will & Grace), yes, they had great chemistry, BUT, dude, HE WAS GAY! SHE IS A GIRL! THEY WERE PLATONIC BEST FRIENDS! HELLO!?!?! LOL!
And in the Tron fandom, that's one of my big fears. That slash will take over and the friendships and 'bromances' wont be explored in depth as a result.
I haven't seen Tron, but if there are deep friendships/bromances in their, I sadly fear it may happen. Sorry. :(
To be fair, being asexual doesn't mean being aromantic or, y'know, none of us would ever fall in love. But I don't tend to see Sheldon as all that romantic and though he and Penny have an interesting relationship and chemistry I never saw it as anything romantic. Not entirely sure he isn't aromantic though, I have to say, and if he's more than demiromantic I'll be shocked.
Not that the writers have ever heard of those terms.
Yeah, couldn't agree with you more on the Will and Grace thing, platonic best friends.
Oooo, you have got to see Tron, and Tron: Legacy. It's pretty awesome. There's not much time for exploration of friendships but you see the shadows and shapes and impressions and foundations of it in them so... probably will happen though. Did in Trek. I've resigned myself to Kirk/Spock slash if only because they're the only ones exploring that relationship in that depth. I just block out the sex and anything that crosses over from platonic soul mates and into romantic ones too much. May have to do the same here.
Right, and honestly, I don't think Sheldon is asexual either. I think he just doesn't WANT to be sexual, and mind over matter and his mind is extremely disciplined, LOL!
I'm not sure about Tron, it doesn't sound like my cup of tea, but I'll give it a try sometime. :)
I do see him as asexual, really very asexual. They've joked about it more than a few times if not using the actual word they have played on it. I don't think it's him making himself try not to care, I think it's just that he doesn't. The romantic thing I think may be a case of him thinking he'll never have it because nobody will be up to his standards, and also in part him honestly not considering it or feeling it to be the most important or all that important thing. Though he seems to get it in regards to other people, just not personally. Which strikes me as pretty familiar.
The asexual community holds him up as one of the few asexuals on TV world wide so I'm a bit familiar with him lol.
But each see it differently so... *shrugs* Even if to me it's a big part of who he is it isn't for everyone, and not everyone else has the same investment in the idea that I do.
I can't see it because not only the Pilot, but also "Adhesive Duck Deficiency," he had reactions there, albeit, the latter featured more like a teenage boy, but still, it was there.
But each see it differently so... *shrugs* Even if to me it's a big part of who he is it isn't for everyone, and not everyone else has the same investment in the idea that I do.
Very much agreed.
(Wow, we've really gone off-topic from WC, hee, but this has been fun!)
Oooo, I've thought on it and you probably mean the sperm donation scene and the fact that Sheldon would have to, ah, get himself off in order to do it?
Yeah, I've heard that. No idea why people think that - then again one of the more common reactions when you tell someone you're asexuals 'do you masturbate?' and some seem to assume we don't. Well, true for some. Others do. And even for those who don't, it isn't like it's because we're biologically broken and I'm sure Sheldon could do the, ah, required stuff to get the correct bodily reaction for donation if he so wanted.
So.... yeah. Um, that scene doesn't actually prove anything.
No, the way he was with Penny in their first scene (the shy way he acted, etc.) and in the sperm bank scene, Leonard referenced the fact that Sheldon had a LOT of practice masturbating. It was just overall the whole feel for it, yes, the Pilot, characters weren't established, etc., however future episodes specifically referenced events IN the Pilot, so I don't go with the 'not-part-of-canon.'
Well, I didn't see it as flirting myself, or not intentional flirting anyway. But either way, none of that is anything that says 'not asexual' so.... *shrugs*
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I agree so completely with this. I am such a romantic, couple-girl at heart, but at the same time, there is such a beauty in something like 'brothers in all but blood,' that I feel gets lost in this internet-slash-happy world. And I'm not coming down on slashers at all, or saying all are like that. Someone very close to me is a HUGE slasher, and through her, I'm very aware of the slash world in fandom.
It's not my thing, but I don't see anything wrong with it (thank you, Seinfeld), it does bug me however when it's applied to EVERY deep friendship or relationship between two same sex characters on television/movies/books ... when there's no wink, wink, nudge, nudge, and is clearly not intended, and not there in the subtext. (Ie, Merlin/Arthur SO is -- I mean, "Is your little bottom sore?" COME ON! Sherlock/Watson in the RDJ/JL movie? You can practically see RDJ leering in some of their scenes. However, it's not always there, and that's when it frustrates me. If there's no intention, there's no intention, if there is nothing in the text, or subtext and you're just going for it because, as you said, for jollies, than it does cheapen it, in my opinion.
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I think in the Sherlock Holmes movie, even the director was trying to get Jude and RDJ to town it down and was telling them, and this is almost a direct quote from RDJ to 'play it even close to straight'. So, yeah, that's there. Or Due South actually, with Fraser/RayK - Paul Gross who was the producer during the seasons with RayK actually said in an interview that the slashers would love it and played it up more than a few times, and the ending of the show..... that was as close to cannon as you can get without them literally saying 'I love you romantically and want to marry you'.
I'm demiromantic personally, demi-biromantic actually, but I'm all for others being romantic and can be a bit of a sap in that regard. The entire John/Delenn thing in Babylon 5 just.... but I agree, no point forcing it in where there's no sign of it. Just to have it. And because most people are sexual rather than asexual where there's romance there's sex. Cause to have romance one must have sex *rolls eyes*.
It's nice seeing relationships that don't go down that path but still mean just as much.
Have you ever seen Boston Legal? There's a relationship on there between Denny Crane and Alan Shore. Slashers in the fandom are probably all over it. They are very very close, went to a party together dressed as flamingos, regularly express their love for one another and are comfortable with it. I don't want to spoil the last episode but it goes in that direction. But that love is entirely platonic. It's deep, the levels of trust and devotion and importance to each other and.... everything. Everything you'd think of as leading to one of the most epic romances in fandom. Except for any kind of romance or sex.
Funnily enough, Denny is played by William Shatner. He's good at it too, I have to say. But that's basically the second time he's played a person in a non-romantic/sexual t'hy'la relationship now.
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He's good at it too, I have to say.
So agree, re: the Shat.
I did want to say in regards to my last post, I really don't intend (even with just my opinion, in my personal livejournal -- to anyone else reading this) to step on anyone's toes. We all have our opinions, and our reasons for loving or not loving something. I just wish, personally, that platonic love between same sexes could be celebrated and appreciated a bit more in fandom. :)
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Cause the only thing needed to ship/slash any pairing is for them to be close. Or ever in the same room. Or even just exist for some.
And some friendships I just want to see explored like that and I get so sad and tired in trying to find that and not being able to. So very tired.
And in the Tron fandom, that's one of my big fears. That slash will take over and the friendships and 'bromances' wont be explored in depth as a result.
You saw the show then? I LOVED THAT EPISODE! I about fell off my chair laughing, couldn't breath, when Denny proposed. Cause he's this big Republican but..... anyway. But then it was just really sweet and touching in the typical hilarious and insane sort of way anything to do with them is. It was perfect and beautiful. And I'm pretty impressed the writers did that, to be honest. And did their entire relationship like that. So so impressed, it was great.
Now, on the actual slash side, if only we could get some sort of Due South sequel where Fraser/RayK is now official, or go back in time and fix Ianto/Jack...
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It isn't just slash, true, and I'm sure that some would say Sheldon/Penny shippers (of The Big Bang Theory, which I'm a huge fan of) are like that too. But the writers actually put them in numerous episodes which (even jokingly) hint at some sexual side to it, and the actors have ridiculous chemistry so it doesn't come out of nowhere. Yes, yes, Sheldon is asexual in many ways, but again, there have been sight gags, and jokes, and moments and things that were it any other male/female pairing would indicate that a romance was coming. So the delusion does have some basis in reality. Now, with Will & Grace), yes, they had great chemistry, BUT, dude, HE WAS GAY! SHE IS A GIRL! THEY WERE PLATONIC BEST FRIENDS! HELLO!?!?! LOL!
And in the Tron fandom, that's one of my big fears. That slash will take over and the friendships and 'bromances' wont be explored in depth as a result.
I haven't seen Tron, but if there are deep friendships/bromances in their, I sadly fear it may happen. Sorry. :(
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Not that the writers have ever heard of those terms.
Yeah, couldn't agree with you more on the Will and Grace thing, platonic best friends.
Oooo, you have got to see Tron, and Tron: Legacy. It's pretty awesome. There's not much time for exploration of friendships but you see the shadows and shapes and impressions and foundations of it in them so... probably will happen though. Did in Trek. I've resigned myself to Kirk/Spock slash if only because they're the only ones exploring that relationship in that depth. I just block out the sex and anything that crosses over from platonic soul mates and into romantic ones too much. May have to do the same here.
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I'm not sure about Tron, it doesn't sound like my cup of tea, but I'll give it a try sometime. :)
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The asexual community holds him up as one of the few asexuals on TV world wide so I'm a bit familiar with him lol.
But each see it differently so... *shrugs* Even if to me it's a big part of who he is it isn't for everyone, and not everyone else has the same investment in the idea that I do.
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But each see it differently so... *shrugs* Even if to me it's a big part of who he is it isn't for everyone, and not everyone else has the same investment in the idea that I do.
Very much agreed.
(Wow, we've really gone off-topic from WC, hee, but this has been fun!)
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Don't know the second reference either, actually. I am really really bad with names even with fandoms I'm big into.
And yeah, way off topic but heh, who cares?
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Yeah, I've heard that. No idea why people think that - then again one of the more common reactions when you tell someone you're asexuals 'do you masturbate?' and some seem to assume we don't. Well, true for some. Others do. And even for those who don't, it isn't like it's because we're biologically broken and I'm sure Sheldon could do the, ah, required stuff to get the correct bodily reaction for donation if he so wanted.
So.... yeah. Um, that scene doesn't actually prove anything.
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But yeah, we aren't going to agree on this *g*
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