Honda
Will took today off, although he'll have to work tonight. (On the other hand, if he gets the night-time project done before he goes to bed, he'll get tomorrow off, too, in exchange.) This meant that, despite having MiniPlu in tow, we had another opportunity to go car-shopping. Today's stop: Honda.
We've been considering the Fit, Civic, Civic Hybrid and (for our family-all-haul vehicle) the CRV. We knew there was no way we were going to have time, energy, or six-year-old patience to see all of them, so we decided to focus on the CRV and Civic Hybrid today. However, on our arrival, we first cruised the sales lot, which resulted in Will crossing the Fit off the list straight off. He just didn't like the way the space was arranged.
Unlike the other car makers, this is Honda's only dealership for quite some distance. They clearly do good business, given that we were passed on to THREE different salesmen in the 2+ hours we were there. Started off with one guy who handed us off to Salesman #2 after about 3 minutes because one of #1s customers had unexpectedly returned and he had to go deal with them. Salesman #2 took us out for the CRV and Civic Hybrid, but warned us, as we were taking the Hybrid out, that he was going to have to attend to a pre-scheduled appointment as soon as we got back, so then we were handed to Salesman #3. On the one hand, it was kind of annoying. On the other hand, the salesmen got better as we went down the line, and it also speaks well of how much business they do, and the strength of the brand (which we knew) that so many people go there. On a weekday, no less.
So, we started off with the CRV SUV. It's getting tough to remember exactly what the RAV4 felt like, but it seemed like the CRV sat a bit higher. The ride was nice, although not quite as smooth as the RAV4 (from my recollection). The controls were laid out well. The seats were pretty comfortable, but the bottom cushions, front and back seat, were fairly firm, and I have to wonder how comfortable they are on long journeys. siriologist, what's been your experience there? The brakes required only the lightest touch, which would take a little getting used to, but I'm sure we would. While Will poked around the engine (upon our return), MiniPlu enjoyed poking at the various buttons, flaps, visors, etc. I like the "conversation mirror" attached to the sunglass holder that would let me keep a better eye on the girls in the back.
Then we tested the Civic Hybrid. No sooner had we set out than MiniPlu complained of feeling a little carsick, which seemed odd, since we hadn't been driving that much and she wasn't trying to read or anything. I had her open her window and try to look out (not so easy from the back seat) and kept checking on her periodically, but she did all right in the end. Still, that was some stress I didn't need. For both test drives, Will drove out, we pulled into a parking lot at the halfway point, and I drove back. (I sat in the front passenger side when he drove, but he elected to sit in the back when I drove, to assess legroom.) MiniPlu asked to get out and get some fresh air at the Civic's turnaround, which we allowed. Wouldn't that have been lovely? Kid getting carsick in a brand-new, as-yet-unpurchased vehicle? :P Anyway, she was fine, but it was still stressful. I'm still trying to figure out the cause. The new-car smell?
The Civic Hybrid was MILES ahead of the Prius. Drove well, handled well, plenty of pick-up. The brakes were a little grabby and not so smooth, but, again, I felt we'd get used to that. Will didn't like the brakes, however.
Will surprised me by expressing some doubts as to whether he was really ready for hybrid ownership when we returned. I know it means the end of home repair, given the complexity of Hybrid engines, but I think it was also that he wasn't that thrilled by the driving experience. (I don't know why - I thought the Civic was fine.) However, right next to where we parked the Civic was a 2010 Insight. The Insight was Honda's first foray into hybrids, back in 2000, but they stopped producing them. Apparently they're bringing it back now, marketed to those people who want hybrids but don't want the astronomical jump in price to acquire one. The body style is similar to the Prius, but, rather than being stuffed full of high-end electronics, it's relatively stripped down inside. The seats seemed comfortable enough, except for the middle rear - not that that's ever ideal in a small car, but it was REALLY uncomfortable in the Insight - like sitting on the camel's hump. On a more positive note, the battery is located below the spare tire, rather than behind the passenger seat, thus permitting those seats to fold down (which they do not in the Civic Hybrid). Because of MiniPlu's reaction in the Civic, I elected to stay in the dealership with her while Will took the Insight for a spin. So, this is all second-hand, but Will really liked the Insight, better than the other hybrids. Said he could see well, had even more pep, and the braking system was much better. Because this car is only JUST coming out, there's no history, ratings or reviews, of course; however, given Honda's general history, I think we could be pretty confident of the overall reliability. Given the size, I'd like to have the confirmation of crash-test ratings, and it would be nice to see owner reviews, but that will have to wait. On the other hand, it's looking increasingly likely that the wagon will go first, which means we have a little time to ponder the Insight.
Meanwhile, despite the fact that MiniPlu had brought a whole bag full of activities to keep her occupied during the "boring parts" - her toy laptop, a new Cam Jansen, a math worksheet - she was totally uninterested in doing any of that while we waited for Will to come back, instead choosing to completely tidy the waiting area. (They have a nice waiting area, btw - bar stools and high tables, a "lounge" area with easy chairs and TV, and even a children's nook with toys. Plus a snack bar with coffee, tea, hot chocolate, bagels and spreads for said bagels. MiniPlu was twice offered juice by passing salesmen, which we declined. When Will came back, he got some coffee, but they were out of milk/creamer. Our salesman did his darndest to find some, and you could tell he felt really bad that none was to be found.) Meanwhile, I skimmed the newspapers and picked up brochures for each of the cars we'd visited.
Once Will returned, we all sat down to Talk. (MiniPlu kept trying to interrupt and was a little bit of a pest because, as I said, despite having all these things to do, she didn't want to do them. :P) You could tell the salesman REALLY wanted us to commit to something today, doing his best to see what it would take to get us to make a deal (or, at the very least, say we were definitely going to buy a Honda product and not one of the competitors). We mentioned a price we'd ideally like to have for the CRV, not really expecting to get it, but he was all, "Well, if I got that - would you commit to it?" I didn't like the pressure, but, on the other hand, it showed the lengths they were willing to go. We refrained from committing, though. We'd like to go back and test the recent (non-2009) Forester models again.
It's such a difficult process. Every dealer says, of course, that their product is the best. We have liked the salesmen at Subaru and Honda quite well. It's easy to get sucked in in the moment, and then not be sure about another model you really liked just a week ago.
As a side note, we found out why Subaru's reputation had so many black marks a few years back but seems okay again now. Around 2000 they began changing their engine style (I'd mention the technicalities, but it probably wouldn't mean anything to most of you). Will and I deliberately bought a used 1998 because of it, because Will was suspicious of the new concept and didn't want to be the Guinea Pig. Sure enough - black marks. When they redesigned things in the early-mid 2000s, they went back to their old engine style. Reliability went back up - fancy that. :P On the other hand, it reinstates our confidence in the brand, which had been suffering because we weren't sure what had caused the ratings roller coaster. (We got the engine information from an independent auto parts place Will has used for years - they can speak without the need to promote any particular brand/vehicle.)
So, right now, for the wagon replacement, it looks like it's down to the CRV and a 2007/2008 Forester if we can get one. (RAV4, despite handling well, has some issues that kicked it off the list - the side-opening rear hatch, outside-mounted spare, the electric-based power steering that makes Will twitchy.) For the small car replacement, the Insight is definitely on the list, but we'd like to test the Corolla and Civic (regular) stick-shift models. Finding one is extremely difficult - neither dealer has had one in stock for us to try.
We've come to realize that wagon will likely go first - the old-age signs are potentially more serious than the Prizm's. Also, because it's more computerized, as well as automatic shift, there's some things Will will not be able to repair himself. The wagon failed inspection this morning for something on the axle (constant velocity boots, in case you wondered) which Will can fix in a weekend for < $200, so he's going to go ahead and do that. (Besides, it'll be better for trading if it, y'know, WORKS.) If we can limp the Prizm along for a few more years, that would be good - not only so we're not buying two new cars at the same time, but also so, in ten years, we're not in the same position of having to buy two new cars AGAIN.
Obviously, we haven't gotten much else done today. :P I've boiled eggs for dyeing tomorrow, and hit the grocery store, but that's about it. I also keep thinking today is Saturday, since Will and MiniPlu are both home. *confuzzled* And I'm still sleeping like crap, sigh.
We've been considering the Fit, Civic, Civic Hybrid and (for our family-all-haul vehicle) the CRV. We knew there was no way we were going to have time, energy, or six-year-old patience to see all of them, so we decided to focus on the CRV and Civic Hybrid today. However, on our arrival, we first cruised the sales lot, which resulted in Will crossing the Fit off the list straight off. He just didn't like the way the space was arranged.
Unlike the other car makers, this is Honda's only dealership for quite some distance. They clearly do good business, given that we were passed on to THREE different salesmen in the 2+ hours we were there. Started off with one guy who handed us off to Salesman #2 after about 3 minutes because one of #1s customers had unexpectedly returned and he had to go deal with them. Salesman #2 took us out for the CRV and Civic Hybrid, but warned us, as we were taking the Hybrid out, that he was going to have to attend to a pre-scheduled appointment as soon as we got back, so then we were handed to Salesman #3. On the one hand, it was kind of annoying. On the other hand, the salesmen got better as we went down the line, and it also speaks well of how much business they do, and the strength of the brand (which we knew) that so many people go there. On a weekday, no less.
So, we started off with the CRV SUV. It's getting tough to remember exactly what the RAV4 felt like, but it seemed like the CRV sat a bit higher. The ride was nice, although not quite as smooth as the RAV4 (from my recollection). The controls were laid out well. The seats were pretty comfortable, but the bottom cushions, front and back seat, were fairly firm, and I have to wonder how comfortable they are on long journeys. siriologist, what's been your experience there? The brakes required only the lightest touch, which would take a little getting used to, but I'm sure we would. While Will poked around the engine (upon our return), MiniPlu enjoyed poking at the various buttons, flaps, visors, etc. I like the "conversation mirror" attached to the sunglass holder that would let me keep a better eye on the girls in the back.
Then we tested the Civic Hybrid. No sooner had we set out than MiniPlu complained of feeling a little carsick, which seemed odd, since we hadn't been driving that much and she wasn't trying to read or anything. I had her open her window and try to look out (not so easy from the back seat) and kept checking on her periodically, but she did all right in the end. Still, that was some stress I didn't need. For both test drives, Will drove out, we pulled into a parking lot at the halfway point, and I drove back. (I sat in the front passenger side when he drove, but he elected to sit in the back when I drove, to assess legroom.) MiniPlu asked to get out and get some fresh air at the Civic's turnaround, which we allowed. Wouldn't that have been lovely? Kid getting carsick in a brand-new, as-yet-unpurchased vehicle? :P Anyway, she was fine, but it was still stressful. I'm still trying to figure out the cause. The new-car smell?
The Civic Hybrid was MILES ahead of the Prius. Drove well, handled well, plenty of pick-up. The brakes were a little grabby and not so smooth, but, again, I felt we'd get used to that. Will didn't like the brakes, however.
Will surprised me by expressing some doubts as to whether he was really ready for hybrid ownership when we returned. I know it means the end of home repair, given the complexity of Hybrid engines, but I think it was also that he wasn't that thrilled by the driving experience. (I don't know why - I thought the Civic was fine.) However, right next to where we parked the Civic was a 2010 Insight. The Insight was Honda's first foray into hybrids, back in 2000, but they stopped producing them. Apparently they're bringing it back now, marketed to those people who want hybrids but don't want the astronomical jump in price to acquire one. The body style is similar to the Prius, but, rather than being stuffed full of high-end electronics, it's relatively stripped down inside. The seats seemed comfortable enough, except for the middle rear - not that that's ever ideal in a small car, but it was REALLY uncomfortable in the Insight - like sitting on the camel's hump. On a more positive note, the battery is located below the spare tire, rather than behind the passenger seat, thus permitting those seats to fold down (which they do not in the Civic Hybrid). Because of MiniPlu's reaction in the Civic, I elected to stay in the dealership with her while Will took the Insight for a spin. So, this is all second-hand, but Will really liked the Insight, better than the other hybrids. Said he could see well, had even more pep, and the braking system was much better. Because this car is only JUST coming out, there's no history, ratings or reviews, of course; however, given Honda's general history, I think we could be pretty confident of the overall reliability. Given the size, I'd like to have the confirmation of crash-test ratings, and it would be nice to see owner reviews, but that will have to wait. On the other hand, it's looking increasingly likely that the wagon will go first, which means we have a little time to ponder the Insight.
Meanwhile, despite the fact that MiniPlu had brought a whole bag full of activities to keep her occupied during the "boring parts" - her toy laptop, a new Cam Jansen, a math worksheet - she was totally uninterested in doing any of that while we waited for Will to come back, instead choosing to completely tidy the waiting area. (They have a nice waiting area, btw - bar stools and high tables, a "lounge" area with easy chairs and TV, and even a children's nook with toys. Plus a snack bar with coffee, tea, hot chocolate, bagels and spreads for said bagels. MiniPlu was twice offered juice by passing salesmen, which we declined. When Will came back, he got some coffee, but they were out of milk/creamer. Our salesman did his darndest to find some, and you could tell he felt really bad that none was to be found.) Meanwhile, I skimmed the newspapers and picked up brochures for each of the cars we'd visited.
Once Will returned, we all sat down to Talk. (MiniPlu kept trying to interrupt and was a little bit of a pest because, as I said, despite having all these things to do, she didn't want to do them. :P) You could tell the salesman REALLY wanted us to commit to something today, doing his best to see what it would take to get us to make a deal (or, at the very least, say we were definitely going to buy a Honda product and not one of the competitors). We mentioned a price we'd ideally like to have for the CRV, not really expecting to get it, but he was all, "Well, if I got that - would you commit to it?" I didn't like the pressure, but, on the other hand, it showed the lengths they were willing to go. We refrained from committing, though. We'd like to go back and test the recent (non-2009) Forester models again.
It's such a difficult process. Every dealer says, of course, that their product is the best. We have liked the salesmen at Subaru and Honda quite well. It's easy to get sucked in in the moment, and then not be sure about another model you really liked just a week ago.
As a side note, we found out why Subaru's reputation had so many black marks a few years back but seems okay again now. Around 2000 they began changing their engine style (I'd mention the technicalities, but it probably wouldn't mean anything to most of you). Will and I deliberately bought a used 1998 because of it, because Will was suspicious of the new concept and didn't want to be the Guinea Pig. Sure enough - black marks. When they redesigned things in the early-mid 2000s, they went back to their old engine style. Reliability went back up - fancy that. :P On the other hand, it reinstates our confidence in the brand, which had been suffering because we weren't sure what had caused the ratings roller coaster. (We got the engine information from an independent auto parts place Will has used for years - they can speak without the need to promote any particular brand/vehicle.)
So, right now, for the wagon replacement, it looks like it's down to the CRV and a 2007/2008 Forester if we can get one. (RAV4, despite handling well, has some issues that kicked it off the list - the side-opening rear hatch, outside-mounted spare, the electric-based power steering that makes Will twitchy.) For the small car replacement, the Insight is definitely on the list, but we'd like to test the Corolla and Civic (regular) stick-shift models. Finding one is extremely difficult - neither dealer has had one in stock for us to try.
We've come to realize that wagon will likely go first - the old-age signs are potentially more serious than the Prizm's. Also, because it's more computerized, as well as automatic shift, there's some things Will will not be able to repair himself. The wagon failed inspection this morning for something on the axle (constant velocity boots, in case you wondered) which Will can fix in a weekend for < $200, so he's going to go ahead and do that. (Besides, it'll be better for trading if it, y'know, WORKS.) If we can limp the Prizm along for a few more years, that would be good - not only so we're not buying two new cars at the same time, but also so, in ten years, we're not in the same position of having to buy two new cars AGAIN.
Obviously, we haven't gotten much else done today. :P I've boiled eggs for dyeing tomorrow, and hit the grocery store, but that's about it. I also keep thinking today is Saturday, since Will and MiniPlu are both home. *confuzzled* And I'm still sleeping like crap, sigh.