I can see that this is one of those issues that a lot of people are going to go crazy on, so I'll jump in with my two cents worth. :P
I'm the tiniest of my friends. Literally. I'm super, super short (5'2) and weigh (the last time I checked, which was ages ago) well under what I'm supposed to. All of my friends are definitely NOT thin people. They're all size 12, 14, 16 AUS, and god DAMN but I wish I was too.
I think the thing that pisses me most off about this Kate person's rant is that all 'fat' people are in this funk where being my size will get them the perfect boyfriend/job/lifestyle, and i hate to say but I do see a lot of that with my mates, which is sucky. And I do believe they think that they'd be happier if they were my size. A few of my friends would be healthier for sure, but definitely not happier, and it's always annoyed me that people think that thin people are the ones who have perfect lifestyles. So far, I haven't met a guy or a girl who likes the skin and bones look, but it seems to me in a general way, a lot of my friends want that look.
I'm also opposed to the way she seems to be referring to 'fat' as 'mildly overweight'. It's seriously the labelling like this that is putting all my friends (and apparently this Kate person) in this "thin people are naturally happier/prettier/healthier people" mentality.
Do I look like a happy size 6 to you? No, I thought so. hand me that cheeseburger. :P
I agree that she has a good point, for a certain group of people, at a certain level of overweight, who have certain other emotional issues. If she actually meant to address just this particular group, she did a pretty sloppy job of it because it comes across like she's talking to all fat women who don't already love and accept their fat or whatever. :/
You're right, though, that just being thin isn't going to make someone happy. I mean, if you're depressed because you're fat, with whatever issues that entails, and don't have any other problems getting you down and you aren't actually depressive, then losing weight probably will cheer you up. Other than that, though, then yeah, thinning down will probably just make you a depressed thin person instead of a depressed fat person.
So far, I haven't met a guy or a girl who likes the skin and bones look, but it seems to me in a general way, a lot of my friends want that look.
I read an article ages ago, about a study done on that. They had a drawing of a series of female figures, just line drawings showing the basic shape, which ranged from skin-and-bones to very fat. They asked a bunch of women to indicate 1) how they would want to look, and 2) what they thought men liked. (This was before anyone acknowledged the existence of lesbians. ;) ) Then they asked a bunch of men to indicate what they liked. When they compiled the data, they found that most of the women wanted to be one or two sizes thinner than what they thought men liked, and men actually liked bodies a size or two fatter than what women thought. So we have women struggling desperately to get down to two to four sizes skinnier than men actually like, and one of the reasons they say they want to do it is to attract men.... [headdesk]
There are major body image issues people need to work on. But there are a lot of different issues with body image and people's emotional response to it, and not everyone has the same issues. People are different and any "Hey, here's the answer" sort of article needs to acknowledge that.
I went through a whole period where I thought the be all and end all of my bad moods was because I'm too thin. Because they DON'T stock clothes in my size (either that, or I show up too late, which I doubt), and they certainly don't make them for short thin people, much like your problem as well. It's yet another thing we need here in Aus, a national dress size standard. I can go into one store, and not fit into a size 10 because my boobs are too hoog, yet other stores...size 4?! WTF?! And it's stuff like that that screws people up over their weight (I'm not too sure what it's like in the States).
And I agree with the not liking her generalisation of the 'fat'. because there are certainly all kinds of people out there, and everyone has a different mentality. I think she definitely needs to acknowledge which 'group' she's writing to next time. :P
Wow, and I thought it was bad here. :/ If you can vary between size 10 and size 4, then something really should be done.
Last I read anything on the subject, there was no legal, national standard for sizes here, but there's a kinda-sorta de facto standard for off-the-rack clothes, and it's pretty rare for someone to vary by more than a size in either direction. I remember being either a 14 or a 16, depending on what I was buying and who manufactured it and such; I pretty much had to try things on.
There are different size standards, though -- there's also the S/M/L/XL etc. range, which has some variation between manufacturers. I have some XXL T-shirts that are uncomfortably tight and one or two XLs that fit OK. And on the fat women's end, there's 1X, 2X, 3X and 4X, and it might go higher although 1-4 is what you usually see in the stores. And there are "women's" sizes for people who are just a tiny bit hefty, so you might get a 10W if you're kind of a size ten but need a bit more room. And there are tall sizes too, except it's very rare to find pants in anything above an 18T, and even those are rare. If it weren't for the JC Penney online service letting you put in measurements and make up custom size trousers, I'd be stuck with shorts all year round. [eyeroll]
But once you've figured out what fits you (assuming anything does) you're usually good within a size or so.
The problem is when people decide they want to sew. [headdesk] I worked in a fabric store for a while when I was your age, and the first thing they told me was that pattern companies use completely different sizes from off the rack clothing manufacturers, and from each other, and you have to go by the measurement charts on the back. I don't know how many times I explained this to some customer, and helped her find her measurements, and look up which pattern size she needed, only to have her get all huffy and insist that she couldn't possibly be a size fourteen, that she'd never worn more than a ten in her life and this was ridiculous, etc.... [sigh] I could repeat, "But ma'am, it's not the same with sewing patterns," until I was blue in the face, they still insisted on buying the smaller one. OK, whatever, it's your money. :P
Men's clothes over here are a lot more logical, for the most part. They buy by measurements -- collar and sleeve length for shirts, and waist and inseam for pants. They have the S/M/L/XL thing too, for casual clothes that don't have to fit precisely, but in general it's easier for a guy to find clothes that fit well than it is for a woman. Figures. [mutter]
I think she definitely needs to acknowledge which 'group' she's writing to next time. :P
Ugh, no, the sizes for women here suck. I generally have to stick to three stores, one that's nice and cheap and easy, the other two are major department stores and charge like wounded bulls. The men here get it easy too. It's all S, M, L, XL etc (women sometimes get that, like in my cheap and easy store, where I'm a XXS, damn them) for the shirts and pants are measured by the waist in inches. Generally I think the stores expect the guys to turn around to their mothers/sisters/girlfriends/wives to sew the legs up if they're too long.
I remember I bought a shirt not that long ago from an American website and was shocked to find out that my size 6 was actually an XL over there. And this XL shirt that arrived was TINY. I can't imagine what shopping for clothing in the States must be like. It's bad enough when we get major American jeans labels like Seven over here. I remember trying on 14 different pairs just to find the right size. Oo
The last time I made something for myself was in sewing class. A pair of rainbow pajama bottoms, which I love to bits. XD because the legs I took up myself, and though they're exceedingly loose and baggy at the legs, there is nothing quite as satisfying as measuring out the elastic band yourself so that OMFG they actually fit and I don't have to keep wearing belts/pulling the seat of my pants back up every time I stand. Too bad rainbow jammies aren't exactly fashionable to get around in as everyday wear.
In America, there's a second want of being tall and thin. The Gap may sell jeans at a price that's actually somewhat affordable (compared to where all my classmates buy theirs *grumble grumble*), but I'm not kidding at all when I say that Gap makes it really hard to for me to get jeans because my inseam is 27in, I think, but their shortest is 29, and their short sizes are impossible to find in the small sizes - in the store they only ever have the regulars and longs in the size 0 and 1s, and the size 2s have very few as well. I can't buy my jeans from them.
(and I know what you mean about the waist - my favourite pair of pajama bottoms has a safety pin in them.)
The leg thing in pants is a problem over here too. I see so many people with the hems of their jeans ripped (or in winter) soaked through. It's why I buy skinny leg jeans and massive skate shoes. That way I can tuck the ends into my boots and not worry about it. :D
I'm the tiniest of my friends. Literally. I'm super, super short (5'2) and weigh (the last time I checked, which was ages ago) well under what I'm supposed to. All of my friends are definitely NOT thin people. They're all size 12, 14, 16 AUS, and god DAMN but I wish I was too.
I think the thing that pisses me most off about this Kate person's rant is that all 'fat' people are in this funk where being my size will get them the perfect boyfriend/job/lifestyle, and i hate to say but I do see a lot of that with my mates, which is sucky. And I do believe they think that they'd be happier if they were my size. A few of my friends would be healthier for sure, but definitely not happier, and it's always annoyed me that people think that thin people are the ones who have perfect lifestyles. So far, I haven't met a guy or a girl who likes the skin and bones look, but it seems to me in a general way, a lot of my friends want that look.
I'm also opposed to the way she seems to be referring to 'fat' as 'mildly overweight'. It's seriously the labelling like this that is putting all my friends (and apparently this Kate person) in this "thin people are naturally happier/prettier/healthier people" mentality.
Do I look like a happy size 6 to you? No, I thought so. hand me that cheeseburger. :P
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You're right, though, that just being thin isn't going to make someone happy. I mean, if you're depressed because you're fat, with whatever issues that entails, and don't have any other problems getting you down and you aren't actually depressive, then losing weight probably will cheer you up. Other than that, though, then yeah, thinning down will probably just make you a depressed thin person instead of a depressed fat person.
So far, I haven't met a guy or a girl who likes the skin and bones look, but it seems to me in a general way, a lot of my friends want that look.
I read an article ages ago, about a study done on that. They had a drawing of a series of female figures, just line drawings showing the basic shape, which ranged from skin-and-bones to very fat. They asked a bunch of women to indicate 1) how they would want to look, and 2) what they thought men liked. (This was before anyone acknowledged the existence of lesbians. ;) ) Then they asked a bunch of men to indicate what they liked. When they compiled the data, they found that most of the women wanted to be one or two sizes thinner than what they thought men liked, and men actually liked bodies a size or two fatter than what women thought. So we have women struggling desperately to get down to two to four sizes skinnier than men actually like, and one of the reasons they say they want to do it is to attract men.... [headdesk]
There are major body image issues people need to work on. But there are a lot of different issues with body image and people's emotional response to it, and not everyone has the same issues. People are different and any "Hey, here's the answer" sort of article needs to acknowledge that.
Angie
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I went through a whole period where I thought the be all and end all of my bad moods was because I'm too thin. Because they DON'T stock clothes in my size (either that, or I show up too late, which I doubt), and they certainly don't make them for short thin people, much like your problem as well. It's yet another thing we need here in Aus, a national dress size standard. I can go into one store, and not fit into a size 10 because my boobs are too hoog, yet other stores...size 4?! WTF?! And it's stuff like that that screws people up over their weight (I'm not too sure what it's like in the States).
And I agree with the not liking her generalisation of the 'fat'. because there are certainly all kinds of people out there, and everyone has a different mentality. I think she definitely needs to acknowledge which 'group' she's writing to next time. :P
Reply
Last I read anything on the subject, there was no legal, national standard for sizes here, but there's a kinda-sorta de facto standard for off-the-rack clothes, and it's pretty rare for someone to vary by more than a size in either direction. I remember being either a 14 or a 16, depending on what I was buying and who manufactured it and such; I pretty much had to try things on.
There are different size standards, though -- there's also the S/M/L/XL etc. range, which has some variation between manufacturers. I have some XXL T-shirts that are uncomfortably tight and one or two XLs that fit OK. And on the fat women's end, there's 1X, 2X, 3X and 4X, and it might go higher although 1-4 is what you usually see in the stores. And there are "women's" sizes for people who are just a tiny bit hefty, so you might get a 10W if you're kind of a size ten but need a bit more room. And there are tall sizes too, except it's very rare to find pants in anything above an 18T, and even those are rare. If it weren't for the JC Penney online service letting you put in measurements and make up custom size trousers, I'd be stuck with shorts all year round. [eyeroll]
But once you've figured out what fits you (assuming anything does) you're usually good within a size or so.
The problem is when people decide they want to sew. [headdesk] I worked in a fabric store for a while when I was your age, and the first thing they told me was that pattern companies use completely different sizes from off the rack clothing manufacturers, and from each other, and you have to go by the measurement charts on the back. I don't know how many times I explained this to some customer, and helped her find her measurements, and look up which pattern size she needed, only to have her get all huffy and insist that she couldn't possibly be a size fourteen, that she'd never worn more than a ten in her life and this was ridiculous, etc.... [sigh] I could repeat, "But ma'am, it's not the same with sewing patterns," until I was blue in the face, they still insisted on buying the smaller one. OK, whatever, it's your money. :P
Men's clothes over here are a lot more logical, for the most part. They buy by measurements -- collar and sleeve length for shirts, and waist and inseam for pants. They have the S/M/L/XL thing too, for casual clothes that don't have to fit precisely, but in general it's easier for a guy to find clothes that fit well than it is for a woman. Figures. [mutter]
I think she definitely needs to acknowledge which 'group' she's writing to next time. :P
Exactly. [nod]
Angie
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I remember I bought a shirt not that long ago from an American website and was shocked to find out that my size 6 was actually an XL over there. And this XL shirt that arrived was TINY. I can't imagine what shopping for clothing in the States must be like. It's bad enough when we get major American jeans labels like Seven over here. I remember trying on 14 different pairs just to find the right size. Oo
The last time I made something for myself was in sewing class. A pair of rainbow pajama bottoms, which I love to bits. XD because the legs I took up myself, and though they're exceedingly loose and baggy at the legs, there is nothing quite as satisfying as measuring out the elastic band yourself so that OMFG they actually fit and I don't have to keep wearing belts/pulling the seat of my pants back up every time I stand. Too bad rainbow jammies aren't exactly fashionable to get around in as everyday wear.
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(and I know what you mean about the waist - my favourite pair of pajama bottoms has a safety pin in them.)
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Course, dosen't stop me lookin' scruffy. :D
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