Oh Noes more FEAR!

Jan 08, 2011 01:29

So we get some more info about the upcoming Fear event from an Interview with Fraction and Brevroot, which I've posted here if you want to read them yourselves: (I'll update as the interview becomes available)
Part 1
 Part 2 Part 3

I just wanted to grab a few snipits and comment.  I'll start off by saying my hunch was right.  The ones who are going to ( Read more... )

tony stark, steve rogers, comics, marvel

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fictivore January 8 2011, 00:58:53 UTC
Yeah... At least with Bendis writing the prologue and Fraction being a rather character-driven writer, there is a good chance of that slash being there! Still, fingers crossed! :D

Totally agreed... I really really want to read CW: Frontline, but I'm afraid it will make me want to bash someone's head for the stupidity. D: Though to be fair, I thought the main series (the 7 CW books that is) were actually quite okay in the things they showed. Yes, even there there was some bias anti-reg (especially in the later books) but it wasn't as bad as I was expecting.

No one remembers that Steve *refused* to talk 'with the enemy', even when his own people suggested that because, I quote, "We're winning"! People go on and on about how Tony broke the Geneva convention (which is NOT APPLICABLE in this case... If it was, police sting operations would be a violation!!!) to lure Cap in, but it had been sufficiently shown in-book that it was the only way Cap stayed still to listen for 5 minutes! Yes, he took out Cloak and Wiccan, but if he hadn't, would Steve have not teleported out instantly? And the argument about them being teens is so much BS! If that was a concern, why was Cap even bringing them in a potential war-zone?!

Actually, if you think about it, Tony hasn't really done any of the things he's hated on for... The Thor clone? Explicitly stated to be Reed's creation with the technology part of it being PYM'S! (Skrull!Pym so that's what went wrong, probably) Tony's only contribution was the hair, which while not good, definitely doesn't make him the sole or even the primary culprit... Exposing Pete's ID? Uh... IIRC, Peter (MR. Responsibility ;p) was going to RUN AWAY! when Tony asked him to do that... He had his bag packed and everything. What made him actually decide to go along was MJ and Aunt May asking him to do so! I don't see anyone going 'That Crazy May! She made Kingpin shoot her!' *eye roll*

Uhh... wow that was rambly... I guess that just means, haters will be haters, even if there's no reason? Weird... o_@;

Though on the point of staying IC, I'm actually okay with who supported what. I can't say about Cap, though it's been pointed out in various places that he does have a history of going against the gov if he doesn't agree - though never outright fighting against the gov, before... Which is where, the OOC for him comes. (I mean, if the SHRA was passed legally, it *was* the will of the people. Anti-super sentiment in MU is nothing new. Even post-SHRA, JJJ became Mayor of NY on an anti-super platform, I think? So what's Steve gonna do, if America elects a president he doesn't like? Force re-elections until they choose one he does? :\

And Tony... Well, this is where the character development comes in. Yes, once upon a time, maybe he'd do that. But something, again people don't remember- even during Armor Wars, the actual attacking was a last course. He actually first went all the legal ways and was told it was impossible to do anything. IIRC, Nick also sort-of turned his back at this point, because the leaked tech gave *him* access to it too. And Tony found out about A HUGE group of criminals using his tech... Which is why and when he did the whole vigilante thing. Then the second time, his tech leaked- again he went through proper channels first. This was when he ended up the Def Sec. So Tony going with the government again, is really not that OOC.

As a general question of curiosity- have you ever read any Terry Pratchett, btw?

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angel_inoshi January 8 2011, 03:05:23 UTC
People will always see the events in the way they want to perceive them. What annoys me is that Reed as far as I know, didn't really get any backlash for the Thor clone. I think I've learned to expect the fact that no matter what - it's Tony's fault. DDDDD8 [hugs him] I dislike Tony!abuse alot...

Yeah, I totally forgot May and MJ supported Peter unmasking [shakes head] But apparently that's Tony's fault still....how much you wanna bet in Avengers #9 it'll somehow be Tony's fault the Infinity Gems were stolen. [kicks Marvel] [shakes head] you have me thiiiiis close to actually going back and reading everything there is about Ironman...because I feel so helpless that I can't defend Tony properly. Are Essentials in Black and White?

At the same time though, I still want to come in as a "new reader" and judge how things appear from a new reader standpoint. So-far Tony looks bad...hopefully Fraction will fix it. Mmm, one thing though...I believe it's Brubaker that's writing the prologue....man do we really have to wait till May?

Also another thing...Steve actually said "we're winning"? Steve...how were you winning? Far as I could tell, the public still was pro-reg otherwise when you went in for the kill...all those people wouldn't have jumped on you...

Ooooh last thing...did you see the preview of Ironman 500.1? Is the mind-wipe gone?

EDIT: Because I forgot your last question...no I haven't read any Terry Pratchett

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fictivore January 8 2011, 04:49:15 UTC
So true! I think that's the thing which bothers me a lot too... I mean, let alone any blame, we basically get told (in DR:FF) that the SHRA only ended in disaster because Reed didn't do everything alone! That if he'd (or circumstances) had taken Tony out of the equation everything would have had a chance of going fine, but zero chance if Tony (and Hank) were involved! D: [Which is why I have this pet theory that all the universes Reed saw, were only the ones, where *his* actions caused the 'big change'... If Tony had been the one looking, the universes seen would have been different... And so on for anyone else... :3]

And God! I hope not! Still holding out a bit of hope... Maybe they'll actually see the things Reed does as well! [Seriously, it's incomprehensible how he just get's a free pass everytime... I mean, for god's sake, he got a free pass for bringing GALACTUS! back to life! Because apparently it turned out that he was important for the universe to exist or something... D:]

Hmm... that sounds interesting actually... Though reading all the actual back canon, has just made me love Tony exponentially more, because GOD! does Marvel beat on him! Though, from a 'new reader' perspective, isn't all the 'asshole!Tony' basically concentrated during the CW? [I ask because I only read the CW, once I was no longer a 'new reader' so it just pissed me off more at the treatment Tony was getting... And the the IM#4 and IIM that I did read as a new reader, just made me want to squish him! ;3]

And, no... None of the old strips are in B&W actually... Some of the art is even decent! (It was a surprise to me too!) IM Vol 3 is complete awesome gold though! Tony looks consistently HOT! and stories are pretty good as well... [And sentient AI and Tiberius Stone both are from this volume! *hee hee*]

I'm actually just going through the part where he pretended to be dead (what you were talking about in the other thread... combination, okay? ;) and though yes, it was dickish behaviour and I'm still not all the way through, Tony *did* have a reason which made sort of sense in a 'must protect Rhodey' kind-of-way...

(OOPS! Yes, it's Brubaker... Don't know why I thought it was Bendis! Oh well, we can still hope for some crumbs? They have to know they have a somewhat solid Cap/Tony demographic?)

I believe the we're winning comment was after Bill Foster's death (though I'm not sure) when the a lot of the supers started changing sides... And actually, through the entire CW, no matter what Steve kept babbling about standing for the public, and what's right, blah blah blah, he seemed mostly concerned with what was wrong or right for *his friends*... The people he knew personally (what tvtropes calls 'Protagonist Centered Morality') while Tony seemed to be taken the whole general non-powered populace into consideration... Which is why the whole 'normal ppl mobbing Steve' really worked for me! I mean, the anti-regs for all their talk of standing for justice, were really not caring about collateral damage... While Tony's first priority ALWAYS was 'Protect the civilians'... Dunno why ppl don't see that... -_-;

And yes! I just saw that! I was wondering too! Or do they mean even Fraction's forgotten about the wipe? WTF?! [Also I'm HORRIFIED Teen!Tony made an appearance! NOOOOOOO! He does not exist, dammit! D:] I really want to get my paws on it now... [But I'm scared too... ;_;]

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angel_inoshi January 8 2011, 07:14:40 UTC
Unfortunately Tony protecting the people of the MU gets overlooked since those same people were like "yeeeah Osborn" XD Also, the whole morality issue with Steve and Cap boiled down to the "the safety of the people versus the freedom of select individuals" ie - allegory to the Patriot Act. Where the whole thing actually fails is that Marvel couldn't decide what SHRA really was supposed to be...it kept mutating! But I digress...[kicks Civil War] I refuse to look back now...even though one of my secret desires is to see a fic where Tony surrendered.

I really want to know...what if Tony just put up his hands and said "I surrender..." Punching Tony would not have gotten the act repealed. In fact, I think it would have gotten worse. I could see the public becoming furious that Steve beat up Ironman...and I could also foresee Sentinals hunting down meta-humans. Not to mention Skrull invasion <3 Then again...I suppose Project Wideawake would have been on the table...

LOL, I know I am currently loving that for the most part...all bureaucratic BS Tony would have had to deal with concerning the Avengers is officially not his problem. =3 LOL, and he doesn't have to pay the bills either...I can imagine Tony staring at his paycheck for being an Avenger and going \(^0^)/ extra cash!

I don't think Fraction forgot about the mind-wipe...but it may be possible he's reversing it...or something. And was teen Tony really that bad? The only teen Tony I know of personally is from the Ironman Armored Adventures which is AWESOME. People really need to give that show a shot...bet they'd be surprised that Yost (the guy currently doing EMH) also worked on Armored Adventures...

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fictivore January 8 2011, 09:01:14 UTC
Haha, yeah! Though have you read simmysim's "What If: Project Wide-Awake" (http://talesofsuspense.net/viewstory.php?sid=227&chapter=1) It is AWESOME! And sort of like what you'r looking for...

And this! So much! It was like by Cap 'winning' the way he did, even now... It's basically just proving all of the government's fears right. I mean, the government keeps trying to control the supermen because they're afraid of them going rogue. Basically that if they *do* need to control them, they won't be able to do anything against them... And what's the first thing Steve and the other 'righteous' Avengers do when the gov passes a law they don't like? Declare war on the US?! How does that make any sense?

And really, if you think about it, comparing any kind of superhuman registration act to stuff like the Patriot act is so much BS... In RL a person's religion or ethnicity isn't going to give them the ability to blow up a school. (And the blowing up may just be by accident, since most mutant/superhuman abilities seem to manifest suddenly, but casualties will still be dead right?) I mean it's okay to make comparisons like that in a superficial way... But it becomes deeply weird if you choose to take it so much in depth and start talking about 'real world' ramifications of plain impossibilities... :\

YES, so much! I loved that scene in the NA where Luke is given the tab for mansion repairs! And then has it sent to Steve! I was all, "Now you see, bitches! Where did you think the money for you lolling around was coming from?!" Has Steve had any such moments, where he's all "So much paperwork!" or even just "So much work!!"? {{That'll teach'em ;p}} Though Tony probably needs every bit of that extra cash right now- what with new company and all... ;d

As for teen!Tony, tbh I don't have much of an idea except for the horor stories on the comm (which could be exaggeration for all i know)... It's just that the set of circumstances which *led* to Teen!Tony are so nonsensical that I don't want to think about it...

Hmm... I actually started watching IM:AA this week... Upto ep 5 right now... Adore Gene Khan!!! ;D I think it's a brilliant show on its own, but would have been as awesome (maybe even more) if it wasn't "Iron Man", yanno? I mean, atleast 4 epidodes in, they don't really seem to share much proto-personality traits even, with their comic counterparts...

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angel_inoshi January 9 2011, 00:15:45 UTC
As far as I know there is no Steve filling out paperwork. However, by the looks of part 3 of the interview...I think we may see some of that top-cop position bite Steve in the @$$ ^_^

Teen Tony from IM:AA is the type of Tony I see would have arisen if Howard was a good father. By the looks of the show, Howard was always there for Tony and they would invent stuff together - even though Maria isn't there. I think as the eps continue you'll see smidgens of comic!Tony in there - but for the most part...teen!Tony is adorable. If you really want...you could consider this Tony as Steve and Tony's AU son <3 He's Tony Jr. 8DDDDDDDDDDDD

Gene is adorable and...well you'll see [pets him]

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fictivore January 9 2011, 04:57:36 UTC
Haha... looking forward to that myself! ;d

And I take my thought back... Just saw sentient!AI and man, this works! :DD (Though I think it is telling that Tony only seemed to act 'Tony'ish once he'd gotten all overworked and stressed! (mmm... those under-eye circles! ;) And Rhodey is completely adorable, though Pepper makes up in obnoxiousness! *heee*

Though now, I'm wondering what caused Howard to become all St. Stark! [Maria's death, maybe?] Anyway, loving it now! :DD

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fictivore January 8 2011, 04:51:44 UTC
Uh... about the Pratchett thing... If you like heroes like Tony and have the time, you definitely should! [Though DO NOT start from the beginning! DO NOT!!!!!!] In Pratchett's world almost ALL the heroes (and they're unambigously heroes) are people very much like Tony (as opposed to Steve) and unlike Tony (who seems doomed to failure, just *because*) they use their clever plans and make decisions for other people (who are their responsibility) and WIN! So nowadays whenever I get too depressed about the Tony hate, I think of how awesome Tony would be in Discworld and feel loads better! ;3

[Also there are vampires who replace their addiction to blood with an addiction to working for the betterment of society! Which I like to think is what Tony has done- with the alcohol instead! <3]

Also also! there's this bit, which I totally think Steve needs to be hit on the head with...
The most Steve like character in the series- completely straight and narrow, oozes charisma, everyone loves him... voluntarily takes a back stage to the other heroes because "people should obey the rules because they are the rules, and not because Captain [Carrot] is good at being obeyed"...

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