Watch me watch Lewis and Tolkien spin in their graves...

[agilebrit]

I just saw an ad for "The Golden Compass" that said it was "A brilliant fantasy in the tradition of Lord of the Rings and The Chronicles of Narnia." YEAH. Because those two devout men would totally endorse a movie or book series whose author is an avowed atheist, and in which

Comments

[bojojoti]

Okay, that is just mind-blowing.

[agilebrit]

I mean, okay, high fantasy, rah rah. But to compare it to those two works? I understand that they have this bizarre need to compare it to something, but, dude. That's just completely inappropriate.

[inlovewithnight]

Those are the two high fantasy book series that were recently adapted into successful movies.

I really don't think it's any deeper than that.

[agilebrit]

It's totally NOT any deeper than that. But using the words "in the tradition of" makes MY brain at least go to a place where, if I didn't know any better, I'd be thinking, "Cool. Another fantasy movie I can enjoy that won't attack my faith." And this is so not the case with this. Or at least, it's not the case with the whole series; I understand the first book is pretty good. But I'm not going to buy into the first one knowing what happens in the last one, and I think it's kind of misleading to market it that way.

[inlovewithnight]

I guess I hear "in the tradition of" and think more along the lines of "magic, possibly talking animals, childlike heroes saving the world." But, well. I guess it depends on where you're coming from.

[perseph]

I haven't read the books yet, but several friends who loved and recommend them, and two of them did so to me specifically because I loved the chronicles of Narnia so much and so will probably like these. They are all grand fantasies, so it seems a good comparison. He's not saying that CS Lewis or Tokein would like or endorse the books after all - just that these books are good for people who like fantasies of that sort

[agilebrit]

He's probably more troubled by the fact that Narnia is an explicitly Christian world. *snerk*

I'm not really sure there were too many references to "god" in the first book (not having read it) to be excised (and, to be fair, I've heard that "The Golden Compass" is pretty good), but in the third one it's crystal clear what Pullman's point is. He can couch it in "commentary on religious oppression," but the fact is that God dies in his book, and this is supposedly a good thing, and the people who bring it about are heroes.

It's a shame. I wanted to like it. Yay for genre movies and all that, and the polar bears look awesome. But I won't be going to see this one.

[fierynotes]

"He's probably more troubled by the fact that Narnia is an explicitly Christian world. *snerk*"

I can't speak for Pullman, obviously, but despite being an atheist myself, I love C.S.Lewis' books dearly. And not just Narnia: I have The Problem of Pain, The Screwtape Letters (hilarious stuff), and several others of his works.

(On the other hand, it was when I heard that Pullman was an atheist that I became interested in The Golden Compass. Sorry.)

[liz_marcs]

I've read the books twice, and whoever told you that the children "kill God" is in grave error because that's not what happens.

God does not die in the books. It is a being pretending to be God (or at least "a god"). The creature has aged over time, was overthrown, and was basically being held captive by creatures who were (if possible) worse. Meanwhile, the religion in Lyria's world has been hopelessly corrupted by power and is pretty much quashing dissent of all kinds.

The books are not, at all, atheistic. Gnostic Christian, yes. There is a nod to the idea that there's something above "the Authority (i.e., the being/beings pretending to be God)," but it becomes clear in the third book that "the Authority" and "the Church" and God (and God is not defined in the novels) are three very different things and none are like the other.

So you can go see the move without fear and/or guilt.

[palmaceae]

God dies at the end of the trilogy by falling out of bed.

....
how exactly does that work?

[liz_marcs]

As someone who's read the books, twice, that statement is incorrect.

The children kill a being that had masqueraded as God, but was being held captive by other beings that are doing thing's in the fake god's name.

The books are not about atheism. They use Gnostic Christianity as a template.

[kurukami]

It said nothing about either of those authors endorsing a thing. But all three of them lie in the same general category of "adult-styled fantasy" stories, told in more than one book.