Watch me watch Lewis and Tolkien spin in their graves...

[agilebrit]

I just saw an ad for "The Golden Compass" that said it was "A brilliant fantasy in the tradition of Lord of the Rings and The Chronicles of Narnia." YEAH. Because those two devout men would totally endorse a movie or book series whose author is an avowed atheist, and in which

Comments

[perseph]

I haven't read the books yet, but several friends who loved and recommend them, and two of them did so to me specifically because I loved the chronicles of Narnia so much and so will probably like these. They are all grand fantasies, so it seems a good comparison. He's not saying that CS Lewis or Tokein would like or endorse the books after all - just that these books are good for people who like fantasies of that sort

[agilebrit]

He's probably more troubled by the fact that Narnia is an explicitly Christian world. *snerk*

I'm not really sure there were too many references to "god" in the first book (not having read it) to be excised (and, to be fair, I've heard that "The Golden Compass" is pretty good), but in the third one it's crystal clear what Pullman's point is. He can couch it in "commentary on religious oppression," but the fact is that God dies in his book, and this is supposedly a good thing, and the people who bring it about are heroes.

It's a shame. I wanted to like it. Yay for genre movies and all that, and the polar bears look awesome. But I won't be going to see this one.

[fierynotes]

"He's probably more troubled by the fact that Narnia is an explicitly Christian world. *snerk*"

I can't speak for Pullman, obviously, but despite being an atheist myself, I love C.S.Lewis' books dearly. And not just Narnia: I have The Problem of Pain, The Screwtape Letters (hilarious stuff), and several others of his works.

(On the other hand, it was when I heard that Pullman was an atheist that I became interested in The Golden Compass. Sorry.)

[liz_marcs]

I've read the books twice, and whoever told you that the children "kill God" is in grave error because that's not what happens.

God does not die in the books. It is a being pretending to be God (or at least "a god"). The creature has aged over time, was overthrown, and was basically being held captive by creatures who were (if possible) worse. Meanwhile, the religion in Lyria's world has been hopelessly corrupted by power and is pretty much quashing dissent of all kinds.

The books are not, at all, atheistic. Gnostic Christian, yes. There is a nod to the idea that there's something above "the Authority (i.e., the being/beings pretending to be God)," but it becomes clear in the third book that "the Authority" and "the Church" and God (and God is not defined in the novels) are three very different things and none are like the other.

So you can go see the move without fear and/or guilt.

[texanfan]

One quibble with your statement. Gnosticism is not Christianity. Jesus Christ is an important figure in the religion but it isn't Christianity. This does not invalidate any of your arguments and as you have read the books and I have not I bow to your superior knowledge there. But Gnosticism was considered heresy before the New Testament was finished being written.

[wisemack]

Aaaah, thank you for this comment. I told a friend last night about the Gnosticism comment, and she blinked a few times and said, "but Gnosticism isn't Christianity!" Since knows waaaaay more than I do about such topics (she was raised Southern Baptist, and worked in a faith-based organization for years), I blinked back and say, "Oh, okay, thanks," and vowed to do some research.

Interesting the arguments that keep popping up about Pullman. I don't have a source for the quote, but he is supposed to have said that one of his aims in writing His Dark Materials was to introduce children to the idea of atheism. I think I'll research that one, too.