(no subject)
So, since I've seen a few people here bashing 4th Edition Dungeosn and Dragons, I thought I would drop in my 2 cents from the opposite view.
I've been playing D&D since the old blue Basic set, in 1979. And, for my money, 4E is the most enjoyable version of the game to date.
Let me try to address some of the common complaints.
4E is a clone of MMORPGs
Two phrases on that: One....what's wrong withthat if it were? MMORPGs are fun. It's one reason a lot of people play them. Two, where do you think MMORPGs got most of those ideas from in the first place? D&D and other tabletop RPGs are the basis for the RPG computer games that eventually evolved into MMORPGs. No wonder there's similarity, eh?
4E is too complex/simple
Amusingly, I read this today in a post...both arguments...by the same poster. :) I don't personally find combat fiddly or overly complex at all. Quite the contrary. I ran a 3.5 game the other night, and, as the 18th level fighter resolved his 4 attacks, I sat there, waiting, thinking, "Here's one reason I like 4E." The combat is fast-paced, simple, and everyone gets to do cool things. A fighter doesn't just roll to see if he hits. He rolls to see if he can crash into the guy with his shield, bash him back a step, and take his position. A wizard never has to fall back on a crossbow or dagger. He can magic missile or thunderwave all day long. And a cleric never has to choose between healing and fighting.
And as for simple, again, what's wrong with that? Are we, as RPGers, so in love with arcane rules systems, because they make us feel smart? A rule system should be just as complex as needed to do its job, and no more. 4E is simple enough that my 11 year old nephew grasped it in an instant. Simple enough that too people who had NEVER played an RPG sat down with me last Wednesday and anted up in combat with very experienced players with only minor hesitation.
4E is focused on combat to the exclusion of roleplay
I don't exactly know what kind of guidelines for roleplaying you remember from your previous editions, but you may want to go back and re-read. All of them have essentially been "Here's a snapshot of your race and its stereotypes. Now go buy the splat book to get more info." This edition is no exception to that. Our group includes a pacifist cleric, a lecherous invoker, an illusionist who's completely full of his own reputation, a half-orc who broods over his own somewhat cursed nature, and a dwarf who insists he's just a poor farmer swept up in things too big for him. And some of those players have never played any edition but 4E, so it must've done something right witrh the concept of roleplaying.
Maybe it's because roleplaying is something fairly instinctual in the human psyche. We mostly likely all played RPGs in our youth, from Army to Cops and Robbers. I can't imagine trying to write a book about how to roleplay. Acting teachers have been doing it for years, however. ;)
4E is poorly constructed.
As for "poorly constructed", I have seen only one rules argument over 4E rules, andthat was because the player was thinking of the 3.5 rules set. ;) Don't get me started on the hot arguments over what one can polymorph into in 3.5, or how Grappling works, or whether a rogue gets his sneak attack damage if he's been swallowed whole by the purple worm.
4E is just bad.
If you just think it's bad, that's your opinion, and you're certainly welcome to it. Hopefully, you have some specifics to back it up. I think the problem is that 3.5 was a decent game, not nearly as broken at 2nd edition had been. But that doesn't mean it wasn't right to create a 4th Edition at this time. :)
- Andy
I've been playing D&D since the old blue Basic set, in 1979. And, for my money, 4E is the most enjoyable version of the game to date.
Let me try to address some of the common complaints.
4E is a clone of MMORPGs
Two phrases on that: One....what's wrong withthat if it were? MMORPGs are fun. It's one reason a lot of people play them. Two, where do you think MMORPGs got most of those ideas from in the first place? D&D and other tabletop RPGs are the basis for the RPG computer games that eventually evolved into MMORPGs. No wonder there's similarity, eh?
4E is too complex/simple
Amusingly, I read this today in a post...both arguments...by the same poster. :) I don't personally find combat fiddly or overly complex at all. Quite the contrary. I ran a 3.5 game the other night, and, as the 18th level fighter resolved his 4 attacks, I sat there, waiting, thinking, "Here's one reason I like 4E." The combat is fast-paced, simple, and everyone gets to do cool things. A fighter doesn't just roll to see if he hits. He rolls to see if he can crash into the guy with his shield, bash him back a step, and take his position. A wizard never has to fall back on a crossbow or dagger. He can magic missile or thunderwave all day long. And a cleric never has to choose between healing and fighting.
And as for simple, again, what's wrong with that? Are we, as RPGers, so in love with arcane rules systems, because they make us feel smart? A rule system should be just as complex as needed to do its job, and no more. 4E is simple enough that my 11 year old nephew grasped it in an instant. Simple enough that too people who had NEVER played an RPG sat down with me last Wednesday and anted up in combat with very experienced players with only minor hesitation.
4E is focused on combat to the exclusion of roleplay
I don't exactly know what kind of guidelines for roleplaying you remember from your previous editions, but you may want to go back and re-read. All of them have essentially been "Here's a snapshot of your race and its stereotypes. Now go buy the splat book to get more info." This edition is no exception to that. Our group includes a pacifist cleric, a lecherous invoker, an illusionist who's completely full of his own reputation, a half-orc who broods over his own somewhat cursed nature, and a dwarf who insists he's just a poor farmer swept up in things too big for him. And some of those players have never played any edition but 4E, so it must've done something right witrh the concept of roleplaying.
Maybe it's because roleplaying is something fairly instinctual in the human psyche. We mostly likely all played RPGs in our youth, from Army to Cops and Robbers. I can't imagine trying to write a book about how to roleplay. Acting teachers have been doing it for years, however. ;)
4E is poorly constructed.
As for "poorly constructed", I have seen only one rules argument over 4E rules, andthat was because the player was thinking of the 3.5 rules set. ;) Don't get me started on the hot arguments over what one can polymorph into in 3.5, or how Grappling works, or whether a rogue gets his sneak attack damage if he's been swallowed whole by the purple worm.
4E is just bad.
If you just think it's bad, that's your opinion, and you're certainly welcome to it. Hopefully, you have some specifics to back it up. I think the problem is that 3.5 was a decent game, not nearly as broken at 2nd edition had been. But that doesn't mean it wasn't right to create a 4th Edition at this time. :)
- Andy