Hey I'm back with a large update
First, I'm taking two classes this semester, one math and one psychology test so that should be fun. But again I have to complain about the pricing, FIVE hundred dollars for TWO classes and the books are One hundred sixty bucks together. Sheesh, talk about 'the cost of education'. You shouldn't pay over FIFTY bucks for a book unless it's goddamn ( Read more... )
Giles' ranking seems a bit high actually. Eyghon was described as a relatively low-level demon in the series. Angel's inner demon was able to defeat him relatively easily, and vampires are supposed to be weaker "half-breeds".
Xander's "most powerful form" is hard to gauge, but let's assume it's Xander minus any possession. He could potentially be ranked up there just below Finn and Wood, when he had his soldier memories intact.
I'd rank Gunn higher than Wood and perhaps even Finn given what he survived in Angel's series finale. He took out a member of the Circle of the Black Thorn, AND her entire entourage single-handedly in hand to hand combat, which is nothing to sneeze at. Finn has had trouble with even a couple of vampires.
Sorry, but Harmony's ranking seems a bit high considering her run-in with Xander on BTVS. ;-)
Illyria at her most powerful seems up there with Glory. What a "Hellgod" really is, is very unclear, and given Glory's weaknesses (having to inhabit a human form temporarily) is a severe blow against her. Illyria on the other hand, has no such limitations, though she may be more easily killable in principle than Glory in her pure form; it's unclear how Glory's "apparent invulnerability" compares against Illyria's "invulnerability". Illyria's other abilities pre-transformation seem to give her a hand up on Glory.
I think this ranking might also be confusing how "powerful" someone is, with how "dangerous as an opponent" they are. In terms of raw strength, Faith and Buffy (and other slayers) are likely quite equal. Buffy has clearly been shown to be the more dangerous opponent though, which is reflected in your ranking. Similarly, the Master and Kakistos are more "powerful" than both Buffy and Faith, but their flaws as strategists led to their downfall. As opponents, the vampires are thus clearly inferior to the chosen two.
Caleb too was portrayed as being stronger than Buffy, but since she defeats him she's clearly more dangerous, etc. I think you get my meaning. So going with raw power and/or skill, this ranking needs to be adjusted slightly. Similarly, going with the "dangerous opponent" angle also requires some adjustments.
It's also hard to establish an absolute sense of "who is the more dangerous opponent" because it's important to then ask, "dangerous to whom?". If he were so inclined, Xander could be quite "dangerous" to Willow for instance; physically, he's little threat to her, but he could probably devastate her emotionally. There are some good fics that portray this angle.
Over than that, I think the ranking is fairly balanced and accurate. :-)
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Good catch, I overlooked her. However I wouldn't put her up with Willow for two reasons. One, her most potent ability 'Wish' is dependent on someone else. Willow's power is her own by comparsion. Second, Anya in demon force has already faced Dark Willow and lost, badly. So Anya in Demon form goes on the next tier below Willow, which seems appropiate.
I think I need to decide if I'm going with most powerful or most current state as that affects the rankings and whatnot. Maybe go with 'strongest' in the future.
"Giles' ranking seems a bit high actually."
Eyghon alone isn't why I ranked Giles that high. Based on how easily he scares Ethan Rayne as well as his interaction with that mysterious soceror the Mayor tries to hire to de-soul Angel, I'm guessing 'Ripper' was quite formindable in his youth.
"Xander's "most powerful form" is hard to gauge."
I tend to refer to 'soldier memories' as possesion as they weren't permanent. Potentially he would be Gunn and Wes's equal had they remained or he chose to sharpen them. However the fact that they faded and he adopted a normal lifestyle (as far as BtVS went) drops him below Gunn and Wes and of course Riley and Wood.
"I'd rank Gunn higher than Wood."
Gunn goes below Wood and Finn for the simple reason he's never beaten a physically challenging oppenent by himself. Yes taking a out a member of the Circle is impressive on paper. But let us remember the Senator has no special powers or abilities and her 'entourage' were vampires AND that Gunn was mortally wounded presumably by the effort. Riley also has been in similar situations and won. Perhaps of more telling interest, he defeated a rebuild ADAM-ized version of Forrest by himself.
Wood is a different story. We know he's received a training regiem (most likely one given to Slayers) from a Watcher's as well as a Watcher's knowledge on demons. And that he's been hunting demons for awhile. The First also appears to him, which is important as the First only appears to those that are important so his ranking is more of a guess but probably a safe one.
"Sorry, but Harmony's ranking. "
A fight she more or less wins by the way. There's also her appearance on AtS that boosts her up a bit.
"Illyria at her most powerful seems up there with Glory."
Glory is specifically stated to be a Hellgod and a powerful one at that. It's mentioned that She used to rule a hell dimension with Two other gods that had to unite their power to kick her out. She's also quite old as it's pointed out that her name isn't known in ANY written works that the Scoobies have. Illyria on the other hand, is known as an Old One. So while I can see your point, I'm sticking with the God>Demon theory here.
"In terms of raw strength, Faith and Buffy (and other slayers) are likely quite equal."
I agree, I need to find a better description than 'powerful' in future versions of this. For now though I'll keep using it. As it relates to this, Buffy isn't ranked ahead of Faith because she's more dangerous. Buffy is ranked higher because she's BEATEN Faith decisively, twice, so she goes higher. The Master killed Buffy once but she offed him when it mattered and Faith did the same with Kakistos.
"Caleb too was portrayed as being stronger than Buffy."
Caleb physically is almost certainly stronger than Buffy, (althought that might have to do with the First empowering him) but he's a one trick pony. As soon as Buffy changes her fighting style and tactics he's helpless. But the one trick he has is VERY effective so he gets this tier out of respect.
"It's also hard to establish an absolute sense of "who is the more dangerous opponent."
This ranking basically deals with things we can quanitfy and measure so emotionally dangerous isn't that big of a deal. I'm not even sure if Xander would be a real danger to Willow. As things stand, it's only after she steals Giles's magicks that she is able to be influenced by Xander's love, before she pays little or no attention to him.
"Over than that, I think the ranking is fairly balanced and accurate. :-)"
Thanks, I'm going to probably revise these rankings to take into account some points raised.
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