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[absinthecity]

Nice comment on class from Sam Leith in the Grauniad today, responding to Kate Winslet's proclamations that she is 'working class':

"Readers of right-wing papers sneer at "chavs" and "the underclass", while on ostensibly liberal internet forums, the term "middle-class" is routinely used not as if it were a description, but an accusation

Comments

[vardebedian]

Humans hate other humans. Quite reasonably, since the net impact of almost every human on almost every other human is unmitigatedly disastrous, but still. They don't like to admit this for some reason, so they dress it up as hating one or another subset of humans on the basis of some absurd rationalisation (such as that subset being rich or poor or a different colour or culturally interesting or inclined to make their decisions based on slightly different voices in their heads). Which is bollocks, because obviously what they mean is "fucking humans. Hate em. All of em" and I recommend the more straightforwardly honest approach of just admitting this up front.

[lisekit]

Yes, but....

I think one can be born into circumstances, and have choices made for one up until whatever sort of age you think a human being becomes responsible for their own decisions, but then I think you still have a choice to behave in a certain manner. Some people go to public school and then act in a snobby and twittish manner. Some people go to public school but behave courteously and without prejudice to other people. I wouldn't call the latter group of people public school twits, but I wouldn't have many good things to say about the former

[absinthecity]

*nod* I think that's broadly speaking true. It may be hard for some people to move away from being either a 'twit' or a 'chav' than it may be for stronger personality types though I guess...

[lisekit]

Yeah, I totally accept that. You'd have to have either support from family and friends or one hell of a strong character to break out of either script.

As I say, I think inverted snobbery is less harmful than actual snobbery. Like a lot of these things (racism and sexism among them), there's a difference between simple bigotry (I don't like you because you're different/I make assumptions about people based on simple factors) and discrimination with oppression (I don't like you and am in a position to take away your rights/deny you education and employment/make life materially difficult for you). Bigotry isn't pleasant in either direction, but political oppression is a much greater problem.

[lisekit]

I guess "twits" is the classic term. We also used to note the prevalence of "blazered wankers" in certain Oxbridge colleges. (Not our own Oxbridge colleges, you understand. The bad kind.)

[blue_mai]

that a lot of people think it not just acceptable but somehow funny or cool to laugh about "chavs" really, really grates with me. especially as often those people seem to be pretty smug about it. grr. also, "chav" seems to have migrated from being a description for a quite particular cultural type, to a term that certain people think is acceptable to use instead of "lower class" in a generic and derrogatory manner. i stop moaning now.

[absinthecity]

It's certainly frowned upon to use the word 'chav' within liberal circles now - but that's not to say it hasn't become more widely used elsewhere. I agree that it's a horrible and condescending term to use.