I know that there are at least a few members of this community who identify as both feminist and pro-life, so I'm hoping this will be an interesting debate
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Er, I can't say I agree with no one likes abortion, everyone would like for there to be less of it. I'm a pro-choice feminist and I'm pretty neutral about abortion in general, and ambivalent about the numbers. I'd like for there to be less illegal, unsafe abortions, but abortion in general...I think it's choice.
As a pro-choice feminist I think it is important that all choices are available to women, both in theory and reality. All women should have access to legal and cheap abortions, but all women (and men) should also have access to cheap (or as I prefer free) day care, cheap or free pre and post-natal care, paid parental leave and so on. No one should be forced to abort an otherwise wanted pregnancy because she can't afford a child
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Of course not and that is why I AM trying to help them out:-) I am active in the swedish feminist movement and right now we are trying very hard to improve the swedish parental leave system, so that more fathers will stay at home -and stay at home longer-with their children.
When I vote, I also vote for parties that want to have free day care and free health care (day care in Sweden isn't free at the moment, but so heavily subsidized that everyone can afford it. Still, I want it to be free). If I had more time I would also become active in of those parties. (And if you also refer to "the abortion part" I am also lobbying for a change in the swedish law, that would make it possible for women from countries where abortion is illegal to come here to have a safe abortion).
So, what do YOU do to help these women? Or if you have any other suggestions of things I can do, please let met know!
Basically, what you do is lobbying the Swedish government to use taxpayer money to reward women for irresponsible choices, i.e. having children they could not afford without government subsidy.
I assume dubhouse was suggesting that you donate your own time and money to provide daycare and/or financial aid to women who can't feed/clothe/house their little preciouses, instead of everyone's money.
FREE daycare, FREE extended parental leave for both parents, FREE healthcare... sounds nice. Really. There is, however, no such thing as a free lunch. That money you would like to be so generous with has gotta come from somewhere and last time I checked, it didn't grow on trees.
The part about paid parental leave is particularly insane. You want to use tax money to pay people to stay at home not pay taxes? Really?
Besides, do you really think that giving women incentives to become and stay dependent on goods and services provided by someone else (i.e. the state) is particularly feministic?
Essentially, I see feminism as being about freeing women from oppression, not enabling them to oppress others.
If we outlaw abortion, we aren't stopping women from aborting, we're only stopping them from seeking medical help.
If a young mother bleeds to death on the bathroom floor from an illegal self-abortion while her two young children watch, who have we saved from oppression?
But I have yet to see any convincing evidence that there would be an increase in abortion-related deaths were it made illegal in Britain or America.
One person's convincing evidence is another's pro-abortion propaganda.
And I know plenty of women who would have a legal abortion but would never consider an illegal one.
It's not surprising that many people would SAY that they wouldn't consider breaking the law. That doesn't mean it's the truth, though.
And as I said below, I only think abortion should be outlawed once it's less socially acceptable than it currently is - that would mean even fewer women would consider it.
How socially unacceptable would it have to be? How low would the abortion rate have to go before you think it's OK to outlaw it?
1) I cannot define Pro-life feminism. I do know pro-life feminists but I would seriously just summarize the position as being both pro-life and someone who considers themself a Feminist. In that sense, I am sure your definition is more then satisfatory.
2) I believe it is realistic. I mean, it's hypothetically possible for the demand in any market to just die away because of changing circumstances.
3) Of the PLFs that I know, I would say they are a strong, intelligent group of women. I do not think their ideas and ways are superior so much that they should set the standard, though.
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When I vote, I also vote for parties that want to have free day care and free health care (day care in Sweden isn't free at the moment, but so heavily subsidized that everyone can afford it. Still, I want it to be free). If I had more time I would also become active in of those parties.
(And if you also refer to "the abortion part" I am also lobbying for a change in the swedish law, that would make it possible for women from countries where abortion is illegal to come here to have a safe abortion).
So, what do YOU do to help these women? Or if you have any other suggestions of things I can do, please let met know!
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I assume dubhouse was suggesting that you donate your own time and money to provide daycare and/or financial aid to women who can't feed/clothe/house their little preciouses, instead of everyone's money.
FREE daycare, FREE extended parental leave for both parents, FREE healthcare... sounds nice. Really. There is, however, no such thing as a free lunch. That money you would like to be so generous with has gotta come from somewhere and last time I checked, it didn't grow on trees.
The part about paid parental leave is particularly insane. You want to use tax money to pay people to stay at home not pay taxes? Really?
Besides, do you really think that giving women incentives to become and stay dependent on goods and services provided by someone else (i.e. the state) is particularly feministic?
Reply
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If we outlaw abortion, we aren't stopping women from aborting, we're only stopping them from seeking medical help.
If a young mother bleeds to death on the bathroom floor from an illegal self-abortion while her two young children watch, who have we saved from oppression?
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
One person's convincing evidence is another's pro-abortion propaganda.
And I know plenty of women who would have a legal abortion but would never consider an illegal one.
It's not surprising that many people would SAY that they wouldn't consider breaking the law. That doesn't mean it's the truth, though.
And as I said below, I only think abortion should be outlawed once it's less socially acceptable than it currently is - that would mean even fewer women would consider it.
How socially unacceptable would it have to be? How low would the abortion rate have to go before you think it's OK to outlaw it?
Reply
2) I believe it is realistic. I mean, it's hypothetically possible for the demand in any market to just die away because of changing circumstances.
3) Of the PLFs that I know, I would say they are a strong, intelligent group of women. I do not think their ideas and ways are superior so much that they should set the standard, though.
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