I just read this aloud to petsforchairs and she made an interesting comment. Because Meg's dad being the dad is too creepy for words, (and I totally love your Duncan wasnt the father theory, makes SO MUCH SENSE) what if it was that babysitting dad? the one who was all "wanna come out to my yacht?" or whatever... hmm.
See, I think making the babysitting dad the father would be pretty much ruining Meg's characterization. I just don't see why she'd ever do that. Not even after she found Duncan beating up his car. However, I can see her running to Cole after that. It does seem that he was her boyfriend for quite some time, and enough time had passed since their break-up for her to start to look back on him fondly. The only thing that wouldn't explain would be why Cole didn't fight for custody. But maybe Duncan went to him and Cole said something to the effect of "why should I bother? Someone else is already handling the problem."
I'd thought about Cole too, but to me he seems like the type who wouldve made a HUGE deal if he's slept with Meg just because it'd effectively trash her, yknow? but I do see your point about babysitting dad... I dunno. I feel like someone needs to write "five people who aren't the father of Meg's baby", yknow?
See, I don't really see Cole as that big a jerk. Yes, he was an asshole after the purity test thing, but I think a lot of that was covering up hurt because he really did believe the things he'd read. Meg being with him, for however long, sort of sets him up as a nice guy since I doubt she'd be with him if he wasn't.
I feel like someone needs to write "five people who aren't the father of Meg's baby", yknow? Where's Sorcha when you need her? ;-)
I dunno, I think the moment that solidifies Cole as a jerk in my mind was the whole "I dont want Veronica Mars puking in my car" bit and just... yeah, I believe he was hurt by Meg, but I also see it as the type of hurt you don't come back from, you know? Where it's easier to antagonize her rather than face things. my perspective of him is all muddled byu the fact I'm watching season 1 of 24, which he's in.
Where's Sorcha when you need her? ;-) TOTALLY! *cries*
Well, yeah, he's a typical 09er, but I still think there's got to be some truth to the way he acts at the start of LaV.
Though, I've gotta say, as much as I can see the remote possibility of Cole being the father, the only two people I can really buy are Duncan and Meg's dad. And since it can't be Duncan (because of the non-sensemaking), that just leaves her dad. Unfortunately.
ew. ew. ew. gross. (sorry, that's totally my reflex)
see, I have a huge problem with that too, from her parents POV. They were obviously among the first to find out she was pregnant after the bus crashed, the doctors would've told her. I can't see daddy creepy letting her carry a baby to term if he thought it might be his. With Meg unable to say who the father was he'd have to know a paternity test was likely, and if anyone else found out it was his... well, yeah... I just can't see him letting the pregnancy be known to anyone else, yknow? to me it makes sense that if he had the smallest inkling it could be his he'd find a way to terminate it before a paternity test was possible.
Yeah, true, it is soooo gross, but it's also something that has a set-up because of the abuse in NPBiaC.
And the Mannings' intention to put the baby up for adoption could be explained by them not wanting anyone to find out about the baby's paternity. And you know that alternate ending with Meg's mother killing her? That could have been their way of "terminating" the pregnancy.
Also, I'm not sure how a father can force the doctors of his comatose daughter to perform an abortion on her. Even if she is underage, I don't think he would have a leg to stand on, legally.
I just can't see him letting the pregnancy be known to anyone else Well, they did go to great lengths to keep it a secret, banning Duncan from her room and whatnot. And apparently no one else gained access, because there were no rumors until Meg woke up.
i'd forgotten about the alternate ending, actually... but I guess it still doesn't work for me, yknow? The Mannings had money and god knows Neptune Hospital is probably corrupt, so I can see him bribing someone into an abortion or even finding a way to do it himself before anyone could have a chance of figuring it out
( ... )
I can see why it wouldn't work for you, but for me, the only consideration right now is making sense of the plot while at least trying to salvage the characterization of most characters.
god, they're supposed to know these characters better than anyone else and even without the overanalyzation that comes with fandom they're dropping the ball repeatedly and severly and explaining away their choices with more bullshit.Yeah. I never did think that last year was a fluke, but it's becoming more and more obvious that the details of the first season must have taken years to hammer out and RT & Co. are just not that good at thinking on their toes. I think what bothers me a lot is the "five year plan" thing that Rob talks about a lot. I mean, I'm not even sure it'll get a third season until I hear the official word, but he's so confident in his abilities that he's banking on five? If season 2 doesn't start getting into gear soon (and I'm really hopeful it will, what with the biggest energy drain gone and all) I'm going to have major problems
( ... )
I'll probably be flogged for saying this but i completely blame the TWoP influence. That place is overrun with the craziest of fans on it's best days... and now that RT is so publically involved in that site? ugh. nightmare
( ... )
Sometimes I just wish someone would tell Rob to get a LJ and tell him to friend people who write great meta, like cadhla and ohimesamamama, and I'm sure there are V/D 'shippers who do that too, I just don't have any friended. The ones I have friended started disliking the 'ship in season 2, or stopped watching, so... But anyway, I think the vibe on LJ is different, because we interact on other levels than just fandom, and many of us are friends. So if our friends like something else we try to be respectful of them and don't just rip into something without supporting our arguments
( ... )
Laura, I think you need to learn how to open up and tell us how you really feel. :)
Yeah, I agree with you on V/L, V/D, and Lianne, too. I come at it as an only child who is incredibly close to her mom. If I found out my mother betrayed me like that, I would be pretty destroyed. The fact that it was totally tossed aside apart from a couple of quirky one-liners and then the "Awww, mom" of MMtF is ridiculous.
I could buy into V/L at the very end of this season if KB even attempted to show some subtext or longing in their scenes. Instead we just got venom most of the time.
I'm really trying to hold on to the hope that things will get better without Duncan around but I really feel like RT sees Veronica as a completely different person than I do... and his version of her doesn't work for me.
Yep. I agree. I hope the fact that they don't have to shoehorn Duncan into her life or the mysteries makes her characterization improve a bit, though.
One of the things that really bother me about KB is the way she's letting her personal bias for a V/D relationship show in her scenes with JD. Or if that's not it, then she's not as good an actress as I thought she was, but I don't really buy that, there have been too many good scenes from her for it to be a fluke.
While I agree with RT that Veronica's characterization hasn't changed, I think Veronica herself has changed. And not for the better. It just frustrates me that he doesn't seem to get that she doesn't have to be OOC for her to become unlikeable.
One of the things that really bother me about KB is the way she's letting her personal bias for a V/D relationship show in her scenes with JD. Or if that's not it, then she's not as good an actress as I thought she was, but I don't really buy that, there have been too many good scenes from her for it to be a fluke.I agree to an extent but l left Austin with the impression that RT really did seem to want V/D to have come across as a sweet, young, and cute relationship and for Logan to have come off as the sexy bad boy asshole
( ... )
Yeah, I can buy that, but RT also said that there are supposed to be feelings between Veronica and Logan, and it's just not something I see. And I do think that that is all KB's doing.
I think Duncan's characterization relies much too heavily on an idea that RT has of him in his mind. So he feels like he can pull stuff like that and we'll just understand, because Duncan is good and pure, don'tcha know? But the problem is that we haven't seen anything even remotely like that on-screen, so we can't draw the same kind of conclusions that he does: that Duncan always will be good and pure, no matter what shows up on-screen.
Same goes for KB's backstory. Unless we actually see it, they can't be surprised if we don't come up with the same kind of backstory. Especially when we never really see any reason for thinking that that would be true except for the fact that Veronica is with him. Having Veronica be with Duncan without any thought makes me think she's repressing, not that Duncan is perfect, because...no. Just no.
just a thought. otherwise i TOTALLY agree.
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I feel like someone needs to write "five people who aren't the father of Meg's baby", yknow?
Where's Sorcha when you need her? ;-)
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Where's Sorcha when you need her? ;-)
TOTALLY! *cries*
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Though, I've gotta say, as much as I can see the remote possibility of Cole being the father, the only two people I can really buy are Duncan and Meg's dad. And since it can't be Duncan (because of the non-sensemaking), that just leaves her dad. Unfortunately.
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see, I have a huge problem with that too, from her parents POV. They were obviously among the first to find out she was pregnant after the bus crashed, the doctors would've told her. I can't see daddy creepy letting her carry a baby to term if he thought it might be his. With Meg unable to say who the father was he'd have to know a paternity test was likely, and if anyone else found out it was his... well, yeah... I just can't see him letting the pregnancy be known to anyone else, yknow? to me it makes sense that if he had the smallest inkling it could be his he'd find a way to terminate it before a paternity test was possible.
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And the Mannings' intention to put the baby up for adoption could be explained by them not wanting anyone to find out about the baby's paternity. And you know that alternate ending with Meg's mother killing her? That could have been their way of "terminating" the pregnancy.
Also, I'm not sure how a father can force the doctors of his comatose daughter to perform an abortion on her. Even if she is underage, I don't think he would have a leg to stand on, legally.
I just can't see him letting the pregnancy be known to anyone else
Well, they did go to great lengths to keep it a secret, banning Duncan from her room and whatnot. And apparently no one else gained access, because there were no rumors until Meg woke up.
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god, they're supposed to know these characters better than anyone else and even without the overanalyzation that comes with fandom they're dropping the ball repeatedly and severly and explaining away their choices with more bullshit.Yeah. I never did think that last year was a fluke, but it's becoming more and more obvious that the details of the first season must have taken years to hammer out and RT & Co. are just not that good at thinking on their toes. I think what bothers me a lot is the "five year plan" thing that Rob talks about a lot. I mean, I'm not even sure it'll get a third season until I hear the official word, but he's so confident in his abilities that he's banking on five? If season 2 doesn't start getting into gear soon (and I'm really hopeful it will, what with the biggest energy drain gone and all) I'm going to have major problems ( ... )
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Yeah, I agree with you on V/L, V/D, and Lianne, too. I come at it as an only child who is incredibly close to her mom. If I found out my mother betrayed me like that, I would be pretty destroyed. The fact that it was totally tossed aside apart from a couple of quirky one-liners and then the "Awww, mom" of MMtF is ridiculous.
I could buy into V/L at the very end of this season if KB even attempted to show some subtext or longing in their scenes. Instead we just got venom most of the time.
I'm really trying to hold on to the hope that things will get better without Duncan around but I really feel like RT sees Veronica as a completely different person than I do... and his version of her doesn't work for me.
Yep. I agree. I hope the fact that they don't have to shoehorn Duncan into her life or the mysteries makes her characterization improve a bit, though.
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While I agree with RT that Veronica's characterization hasn't changed, I think Veronica herself has changed. And not for the better. It just frustrates me that he doesn't seem to get that she doesn't have to be OOC for her to become unlikeable.
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I think Duncan's characterization relies much too heavily on an idea that RT has of him in his mind. So he feels like he can pull stuff like that and we'll just understand, because Duncan is good and pure, don'tcha know? But the problem is that we haven't seen anything even remotely like that on-screen, so we can't draw the same kind of conclusions that he does: that Duncan always will be good and pure, no matter what shows up on-screen.
Same goes for KB's backstory. Unless we actually see it, they can't be surprised if we don't come up with the same kind of backstory. Especially when we never really see any reason for thinking that that would be true except for the fact that Veronica is with him. Having Veronica be with Duncan without any thought makes me think she's repressing, not that Duncan is perfect, because...no. Just no.
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