Notes on Buffy 3.16: Doppelgangland

[2maggie2]

Standard disclaimer: I'll often speak of foreshadowing, but that doesn't mean I'm at all committing to the idea that there was some fixed design from the word go -- it's a short hand for talking about the resonances that end up in the text as it unspools.

Standard spoiler warning: The notes are written for folks who have seen all of BtVS and AtS.

Comments

[ever_neutral]

Okay, first of all, apologies for how long it's taken me to get to this and comment.

Second of all:

[local_max]

CITIZEN KANE CLAP WHAT UP

... AND AGAIN. Wow. I did not even remember that. Dude. That is enormously sad.

And I think she's channeling her mother's style of discourse there too. :/

lol, when I read this, it struck me that Willow is like, the female version of a Nice Guy (TM) here. IDK. Thoughts?

Oh totally. Hm. I think part of the Nice Guy (TM) phenomenon is a sense of entitlement, which...I'm not sure Willow has, exactly. I don't think Willow actually thinks she deserves the guys, even Xander. What I *do* think is that Willow believes that entitlement based on niceness exists. If Buffy or Ampata catch Xander's eye, she hates it but they are good people and she can therefore conclude better than her. (I mean, it's not all the way; she resents Buffy's rulebreaking too, but it doesn't get conscious expression.) If Cordy or Anya or (lolololol) Faith do, she goes off the handle and does the ugh guys like bad girls slut-shaming thing. Because there are very few people she will actually genuinely decide she's being better than,

[ceciliaj]

If Cordy or Anya or (lolololol) Faith do, she goes off the handle and does the ugh guys like bad girls slut-shaming thing. Because there are very few people she will actually genuinely decide she's being better than, and the people who bully her and break all the rules are them (well, Cordy actually isn't a rulebreaker -- which is probably why it only takes an episode for Willow to turn around on Cordy between Innocence and Phases). Tho' Willow's rant to Xander about Cordelia is similar to Xander's to Anya about Spike in Entropy, without the, you know, attempting to kill anyone, so.

For real. I know some people have made some interesting arguments about Willow being "coded masculine" (despite being Not Large With The Butch), and I love that in the 'verse this comes with all the yuck of that.

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For real. I know some people have made some interesting arguments about Willow being "coded masculine" (despite being Not Large With The Butch), and I love that in the 'verse this comes with all the yuck of that.Hm, I agree that Willow is coded masculine in some ways (especially later on in the series), but I'm not sure if I see her that way in the Innocence scene -- despite the comparison to Xander. Hm...how do I put this. I think the actual sentiment, that "people I'm attracted to go out with people worse than I am," is not all that gendered. The male coding is more, "they go out with jerks who treat them badly," and the female coding is more, "they go out with skanky hos" or sometimes bitches. (Personal anecdote: I had an ex girlfriend who maintained that guys always preferred going out with bitches who mistreated them, but was also critical of the Nice Guy phenomenon of guys claiming that girls like to go out with guys who mistreated them. Then again, I guess I could see my ex being described as male-coded if she were a

[ever_neutral]

What I *do* think is that Willow believes that entitlement based on niceness exists.

Oh yeah. Well put. Hence the "but they're bad guys, Giles, I'm not a bad guy!" in Flooded.

I think the other element is a big "I could do that, but I won't because I'm good!" thing. Remember Peggy Olson telling Pete that she could have had him if she wanted to?

Whoaaaaa. Never thought of it like that. Will ponder.

And I had lunch with some colleagues last week that reminded me how true it was for me. I pretended I was meeting a friend in order to get out of there.

LOLOL good work. I love it.

To quote John Lennon: "No one, I think, is in my tree / It mean it must be high or low."

SO ACCURATE. Le sigh.

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Oh yeah. Well put. Hence the "but they're bad guys, Giles, I'm not a bad guy!" in Flooded.

Yes. And I think the thing is, Willow doesn't 100% believe she has earned it, at this point. So I mean, I think the idea is that there are Good People who deserve respect and to be treated well. And Buffy is one of those people (for a while), so she can stand up for Buffy more clearly in season one and two ("Deliver," the rant to Giles and Angel in Reptile Boy) more clearly than she can stand up for herself. Willow hopes that Willow herself is one of the good ones, but isn't sure. Hence all the quick "I'm so sorry I unleashed, I don't know my own strength, I'm a bad bad bad person" self-flagellation based on any mistakes. By the time she gets to Flooded, she's built up a thicker veneer convincing herself that she is one of those people.

Whoaaaaa. Never thought of it like that. Will ponder.Yeah. I mean, I don't know if she consciously thought that she could sleep with Xander -- but she was making a concerted effort to keep her hands off

[angearia]

there is something complicated about sex and W/X, which is, I think, why she is still mean and resentful of Xander's relationships even after she's figured out she's gay and not actually attracted to him. I think W/X in the Wishverse clarifies it. Sure, Vamp!Willow is kinda gay, but W/X in vamp-town feels incestuous, doesn't it

[local_max]

Yes, word to all of this (some of this is where I was going, but not all). For me, on some days the X/W scene in Grave is *the most* important moment for both characters, like in the series. And it really is because they have that history together, that love that does kind of transcend friendship in the usual sense (which is why it's still there even when they ignore each other -- nay, especially when they do). They actually share a continuous warforged bond in a way: both from their abusive childhoods, and then from being in the rather traumatic Scooby gang. And they go in two radically different directions, in terms of how they react to being the all-human members of the gang: Xander's early attempts to be the hero guy crumble and he lets himself recede into the background and be the guy who devotes himself to everyday life; Willow's early life as the victim and Buffy-cheerleader eventually frustrates her enough to get about accruing power for herself. The way the two of them both circle around Buffy and all she represents is

[ever_neutral]

Willow hopes that Willow herself is one of the good ones, but isn't sure. Hence all the quick "I'm so sorry I unleashed, I don't know my own strength, I'm a bad bad bad person" self-flagellation based on any mistakes.

Riiiight. Good point. lol, this girl is so screwed up.

I don't know where I'm going with this now, but there is something complicated about sex and W/X, which is, I think, why she is still mean and resentful of Xander's relationships even after she's figured out she's gay and not actually attracted to him.

Huh. Possibly that whole element of growing up together and all? Maybe it's like, Willow associates emotional intimacy with physical intimacy, so a part of her really feels like Xander *should* be the one she's sleeping with since she is more emotionally intimate with him than anyone? Hmm.

"Oh, I forgot to mention, but, bye!" Well, close to that.

No shame, soldier.

[angearia]

Of course Buffy gets a similar problem later, which is also completely different -- these two could find a way to relate if only, if only....

This is why they're friends! Gah, so close, so close. And I love how Season 8 LWH shows how close they are to understanding, yet they still miss each other by a mile.

Again, this is reinforcing my hopeful belief that Future Willow finally understood Buffy in ToYL and though Willow was too far gone and hopeless in restoring her emotional connection, she sought to restore it for her best friend, her other half.

God, I love them. OTP.

the ridiculousness of the Scoobs' grieving scene might be because of a Willow POV inflection

I also love reading this as their shock and denial of Willow's dark side. If Willow embraces her dark side, she is dead to them. Ouch.

[local_max]

This is why they're friends! Gah, so close, so close. And I love how Season 8 LWH shows how close they are to understanding, yet they still miss each other by a mile.

Again, this is reinforcing my hopeful belief that Future Willow finally understood Buffy in ToYL and though Willow was too far gone and hopeless in restoring her emotional connection, she sought to restore it for her best friend, her other half.

I know! Ugh. It's actually really a lot like Buffy/Faith, except on the 'other' side...where the other side is the part that tends toward self-control to an unhealthy extreme. In season six, especially, there is a real sense that the two could help each other -- especially around the Smashed/Wrecked/Gone time, where they sort of connect but don't really, especially since they're both in denial. And they both have big issues with the other, for good reasons (well, Buffy has *very* good reasons because of the resurrection; Willow's issues are so much about who she herself is, and who Buffy is to her, which is building up

[angearia]

Buffy and Willow in Season 8:

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Oh wow, I'm read Buffy/Willow without any sexy subtext, I just don't sense the sexual attraction at least on Buffy's side (maybe it's there for Willow, though?). But wow -- does Buffy dating Satsu make it like she was trying to figure out if she could get closer to Willow?

I never read any sexy subtext into them, ever, until season eight, and then suddenly I did all the way through -- or rather, I think Willow may well have been crushing back in season one and not had the language to express it. But seriously though, Batsu happens in the wake of Anywhere But Here as it turns out, and, well, so does the encounter with Angel (which is an extremely physical trial run for their encounter later, which also follows, albeit less directly, emotional devastation surrounding Willow).

Because I was thinking today how Buffy has intimacy issues when it comes to sex, in the sense that there's a part of herself that I think she only really opens up in the act itself. She's just so physical in her expression. And that makes her incredibly