I can see both points of view, but I think they are really doing it out of fear and just saying it's because it is "incompatible with the values of the Danish society." It shows intolerance of another religion/culture.
I always thought the French law was stupid. To me, it is countering extremism with just another form of extremism. You don't have to support the burka, but outlawing it is a massive strike against civil liberties...
I think I agree. I don't think it even counters any extremism really, it looks more like some petty revenge. It also singles out the least problematic members of the community they are trying to target whose life is already the hardest just because they are more visible and easy to target. The things they are trying to punish the community for have hardly been done by burqa wearing women. I am yet to see anything resembling a rational justification of this move as well. I just do not see how we can go down the road of "we, some Danes, don't like how some other Danes live and look (irritating af) so we are outlawing it 'cos there are more of us and we have been here longer".
Fear of things not understood or of things different to the way they see the world as existing. Both of those, really. And that doesn’t even come near to the subject of the foodstuff that no Dane should be without (pork, if you didn’t see that one coming).
Just as well that no E.T. has really turned up here, as they would’ve just said, ‘Ah, never mind them. They don’t know sh!t.’
What is incompatible with values of Danish society is telling people what they can and cannot wear.
Also, veils have been used in the West for a long time, in mourning clothes, at weddings, and just for fashion - even leaving nuns out of the picture. Kate Middleton wore a veil at her wedding - just the occasion when you want to be sure that the person you're making your vows to is who she says she is!
I agree. I do not see any possible rational justification for it and it looks like some petty revenge to me. And even as a petty revenge it does not achieve anything either. It targets the least problematic members of the community because they are the most visible. It basically looks like some Danes do not like how some other Danes live and look and will be telling them to stop because there are more of them and they have been there longer. This is a strange road to go down.
There are occasional calls here in the UK for a ban on full face coverings, but I hope we can avoid it and I would actively campaign against if a new law was proposed.
I don't actually like them because I feel (perhaps wrongly) that women are coerced into wearing them, however much they say it's their own choice. I also don't like them because it's a cultural thing not a religious thing. I'm old enough to remember when Muslim women from Pakistan didn't wear them and Muslim women in Iran are fighting against even having to wear headscarves. However, I don't think the answer is banning them because that's only going to make people feel more persecuted and lead to more extremism on both sides.
I don't think it is cultural. Some women are fighting against it but women of Iran or Pakistan are not a monolithic thing. In Israel everybody is free to dress how they want and you still get the Orthodox who choose to dress differently and do what they do. If it was obligatory for everyone, plenty of women would rebel against it but it doesn't mean that all Orthodox women are coerced into it or that it is not religious.
I agree that many of them might be pressured into wearing it but this is a different problem and an outright ban is not the best solution for it.
Taken at Langelinje - I adore the Gefion monument, it is one of my favourite publically displayed artworks...
I was just saying to Tyler last night that I’m excited for us to visit Copenhagen together. Such a marvellous city! Please share photos with us if you will!
Burqas and niqabs make me very uncomfortable. Mostly I am uncomfortable because I worry about whether or not the women wearing them are doing so by choice, but, if I'm honest, a small part of me sympathizes with the Danish view that we are an open society and people show their places (but then I remember all the people wearing balaclavas in the dead of winter - an irony pointed out repeatedly when the province of Quebec proposed similar legislation). Strictly speaking, they are worn for cultural rather than religious reasons. That being said, if wearing one is the only way a woman is able to get outside the home and get access to services, I am okay with them being worn. Women wearing one do remove them for legal/security reasons, though they usually do so in private spaces and to female officials.
I think women being forced into getting covered up i a separate issue and this would not the way to address it. I do not see how the state can tell people how to dress and I do not see how this can achieve anything. It looks like a petty revenge to me that doesn't make any sense even as a petty revenge. I don't think women ever voluntarily wear burqas and niqabs for cultural and not religious reasons. Hijabs, probably yes but not burqas and niqabs.
Wearing burqas or niqabs is cultural and not religious in the sense that Islam only commands women to "dress modestly". Decades ago in both Iraq and Iran, women didn't even wear headscarves in daily life, though would cover their hair when visiting the mosque, just as Catholic (and Orthodox?) women do when going to church. It's the hard-line Islamists of Saudi Arabia that have been exporting this more extreme form of Islam that has resulted in the pressure for Muslim women to increasingly cover themselves.
But I have to say, though I have reservations about the face coverings, I rather like the hijab as they can look very stylish and I sometime wish that headscarves hadn't gone out of fashion for ordinary British women. I think only the Queen still wears them. :)
Religion includes interpretation and this is their interpretation of 'dress modestly', it is not cultural I think. Non-religous women do not voluntarily wear it (unlike say hijab) just because they belong to a certain culture. They usually only wear it because this is their interpretation of religious requirements. Or if they are pressured into it of course.
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Just as well that no E.T. has really turned up here, as they would’ve just said, ‘Ah, never mind them. They don’t know sh!t.’
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Also, veils have been used in the West for a long time, in mourning clothes, at weddings, and just for fashion - even leaving nuns out of the picture. Kate Middleton wore a veil at her wedding - just the occasion when you want to be sure that the person you're making your vows to is who she says she is!
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I don't actually like them because I feel (perhaps wrongly) that women are coerced into wearing them, however much they say it's their own choice. I also don't like them because it's a cultural thing not a religious thing. I'm old enough to remember when Muslim women from Pakistan didn't wear them and Muslim women in Iran are fighting against even having to wear headscarves. However, I don't think the answer is banning them because that's only going to make people feel more persecuted and lead to more extremism on both sides.
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I agree that many of them might be pressured into wearing it but this is a different problem and an outright ban is not the best solution for it.
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Enjoy Copenhagen! Please scarf down a few smørrebrød from me (and I love that I don’t need to look that word up to get it right, lol!)
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Haha, thank you, will do, can't wait myself. I know I've said it before but this icon obviously is the best LJ of all times and it isn't even close.
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I was just saying to Tyler last night that I’m excited for us to visit Copenhagen together. Such a marvellous city! Please share photos with us if you will!
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But I have to say, though I have reservations about the face coverings, I rather like the hijab as they can look very stylish and I sometime wish that headscarves hadn't gone out of fashion for ordinary British women. I think only the Queen still wears them. :)
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