(Untitled)

[spellcoats]

Some observers have opposed teaching Standard English, arguing that doing so is discriminatory because certain students would be singled out for instruction--those who do not already speak Standard English. Because Standard English instruction would look like remediation, others would assume that these students had some sort of deficit. These

Comments

[zumie_ashlen]

Well, I don't see the harm in learning Standard English if only because it's the most commonly used dialect? Like if you're learning Japanese, you're going to be taught the Tokyo accent instead of, say, Kanto. It's just more widespread. :\ Learning it isn't shitting on the local accents or anything--it's not like kids will suddenly stop speaking with local linguistic patterns.

[spellcoats]

Is it the most commonly used? I'd say the numbers are far in favor of Chicano English and Black English than Standard. Toss Appalachian, Southern, and the New England varieties in, and you have a very large bag.

[zumie_ashlen]

True--but I was thinking globally. People learning English as a second language are going to be most acquainted with Standard, so I don't see it as a bad thing. Those varieties are derived from Standard English, aren't they? *isn't sure*

I'm probably not the best person to ask though. I'm a New Englander, but I have no NE accent whatsoever. ^^; My parents both speak Standard.

[spellcoats]

That depends on which Standard you're talking about. The two most commonly taught are American and British, but there are non-Anglo countries with their own emerging standard varieties. India, for example. And anyway, a lot of ESL/EFL instruction these days is geared towards native-like ability as much as standardization (in other words, being able to sound like a native speaker, which isn't the same thing as speaking a standard dialect).

Oh, I already have my own opinion on the subject. I was just curious to see how everyone else felt, particularly since I'm about the only person on my flist with a sociolinguistic background.

[spiderstars]

This is a really hard question, not just because it's ... just a hard question, but I'm on the privileged end of this discussion -- I was raised speaking standard English.

First off, I do think it's practical to realize that attitudes aren't easy to change and thus any kind of immediate shift isn't possible, but also that attitudes aren't going shift if we keep emphasizing standard English as, in some ways, the only valid kind of English/the English "intelligent" people use.

But also, standard English is a standard, and it does make communicating easier (especially through written forms/academia/etc.) especially when a lot of locally-based dialects come with slang that someone not raised in that dialect won't be able to understand and might never really grasp the full connotations of.

I guess I understand both points of view, but end up not able to really fall one way or another.

[spellcoats]

Same here. Most people in Ohio north of Columbus feel they speak the most standard form of standard American English. Which isn't actually the case, but cultural perceptions are what they are.

That's basically how I feel about it. :)

[annwyd]

^ this, pretty much.

I think one way to help is to have fiction (and something like recordings of real speech!) readily available that introduces people to different dialects in a non-judgmental way.

[spellcoats]

Yes and no. It depends on the fiction, because if it's not something the student likes, they might reject the dialect based on the literature.

Personally I would like to see K-12 schools implement dialect awareness programs in their social studies or language arts classes, so that students can be intellectually introduced to each dialect's inherent systematic features, with an emphasis on the pros of linguistic diversity. But how likely is that to happen?

[coyul]

What's wrong with using a standard for academic purposes. I know some people that can write perfectly but still speak their own dialect. Using standard english is pretty necessary for business purposes. Isn't that what ESL teaches? I wouldn't know since my first language is English, but it would seem so. If you can't understand each other, you might as well be speaking different languages. People won't just stop using regional dialects just because they know the standard form of their own language.

[spellcoats]

ESL...depends. In recent years there's been a huge shift from teaching standard ESL straight across the board to tailoring ESL instruction for more nativism and to meet the students' individual needs.

An excellent point.

[antimonial]

If I see people lobbying against using Standard English, I'm afraid I'm going to have to have to go back to America and become a lobbyist myself. Don't send me down that dark path.

[spellcoats]

There's been a group lobbying for spelling reform. I understand where they're coming from, because the English spelling system is FUBAR'd, but spelling reform has its own problems, too.

[kaederose]

Keigo=OK in Japan
Standard English=OK for America

End of discussion. If we want to use lemming arguments at other points in society, I will use them here.

[spellcoats]

What are lemming arguments?

[kaederose]

"Everyone else does ____ so obviously it works and we should do it!"

Not that there are any in the comments, just that I've heard arguments for political topics or topics like this IRL from people that are completely specious. Or lemming arguments.

[spellcoats]

Yeah, that sort of thing definitely oversimplifies the whole situation. But so, IMO, does the argument that Standard English is universally appropriate for America. For instance: say a new business is opening in a specific dialect community not usually associated with standard English (black, the South, Appalachia, Texas, etc.). It's a small, privately-owned business whose majority clientele speaks the same dialect as the owners. Then someone comes in who speaks what's generally as close to Standard English as you can get. Should the non-standard dialect speaker have to shift their style of speech (including not just pronunciation and grammar, but behavior as well) for the exchange?