Illyria and Fred and things

Jun 07, 2010 16:58

Did anyone ever notice how Wesley's father and Fred's father are both named Roger ( Read more... )

entry: wittering, ch: illyria, entry: musings, ch: fred

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Comments 32

goldenusagi June 7 2010, 23:13:49 UTC
Yeah...season 5 has some problems because they get down to just one girl on the team. Though it wouldn't have been such a problem if they had given her a storyline where she wasn't there just to be saved (and then killed). Of course, if they took things like that into consideration, they wouldn't have gotten rid of Cordy to begin with.

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penny_lane_42 June 7 2010, 23:24:53 UTC
Yup. Fred has no arc in S5 except to be there for Wes to angst over and then to be turned into Illyria. And the show lost a lot when it lost Cordy. And Lilah.

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snickfic June 8 2010, 01:34:21 UTC
Well, and she's a boring girl! I have the same problem with her that I have with Kaylee on Firefly: she's just so sweet 'n' innocent 'n' adorable, isn't she now?

Ahem.

Of course, if they took things like that into consideration, they wouldn't have gotten rid of Cordy to begin with.

Well, yes.

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goldenusagi June 8 2010, 01:48:51 UTC
I did like Fred more back when she was literally a crazy genius suffering from a hell dimension. She's much less interesting once she's stable, because she's so perfect.

Though I have yet to figure out Joss' obsession with genius girls who are also mentally unbalanced.

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penny_lane_42 June 7 2010, 23:23:58 UTC
YES YES YES.

I love you so hard for this post. That's exactly what the dynamic is in S5 and it's one of the reasons that while there's lots of stuff I love about S5, it's S2 that's my favorite. And also it exemplifies why I'll never love AtS as much as BtVS.

I've written like 300 words from Illyria's point of view and I enjoyed it, but the limited nature of the story made it much easier to do. I can't imagine writing an entire fic from her point of view. I'm gonna be ridiculously impressed to see how you pull it off.

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snickfic June 8 2010, 01:30:12 UTC
Are you an S2 girl, too? I had forgotten!

I'm gonna be ridiculously impressed to see how you pull it off.

Yeah. Me, too. :p

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penny_lane_42 June 8 2010, 02:09:00 UTC
I don't talk about it much, but yeah: the more I think about it, the more I think that S2 was the best. S5 is the one I rewatch the most (well, I don't actually rewatch the whole season, just parts of it) because it has a few of my favorite episodes and some awesome stuff with Spike and Gunn actually has a bit to do. Sort of like I rewatch parts of S7 of BtVS the most, even though I would never say it's the best season. But yeah, S2 is the best season of AtS, methinks.

Hee! I'm positive you can do it.

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eowyn_315 June 8 2010, 02:19:46 UTC
Heh. I am the same way. I love S5 (for Spike and the Spike/Angel stuff, mainly) but on sheer story quality, you can't beat S2.

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eilowyn June 7 2010, 23:38:17 UTC
Very much agreed. Yeah, I'm not feeling to wordy today, but I had to chime in.

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snickfic June 8 2010, 01:36:17 UTC
Chime noted. :)

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eowyn_315 June 8 2010, 02:16:52 UTC
I hated that scene when I saw it. Hated it. 'Cuz Fred's a sweetie and a person, but no more a person than any of those other people we good guys are supposed to be saving.

GAH! I agree with this so hard, I think I broke something. The thing that drove me crazy about Fred's death is that it felt like they were trying to make her more important, just so it'd be a harder blow when she died. And I resent being manipulated like that.

(It also doesn't help that I feel like we were being manipulated into liking Fred - instead of being given an awesome character we could like without coercion - the entire time she was on the show.)

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snickfic June 8 2010, 02:28:21 UTC
Yes to all this. Manipulation, start to finish. And it's too bad, because she's one of the folks that'd actually be bearable to hang out with in real life. She's just not much as a character.

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zanthinegirl June 8 2010, 04:37:10 UTC
I was always sort of "meh" on Fred. I mean I didn't hate her, but I really only ever found her interesting in supersemetry. Mostly I was mildly irritated at her for breaking up Wes and Gunn. And I'm not sure I ever really forgave her for the way she treated Wes after the Connor kidnapping.

Spike's comments make sense to me though-- she seemed to genuinely care about him. She was really his only supporter in the ghost days. And she tried to unghostify him. Plus she didn't take any of his crap-- he was always a sucker for that!

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snickfic June 8 2010, 22:44:51 UTC
I think "meh" is a good description of my feelings about Fred, right up to S5. Oh, and I also really disliked the love triangle thing in S3, but then I hate love triangles in general.

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