Comments | selenak: Thirty Days of TV: Day Twenty-Three

selenak

Thirty Days of TV: Day Twenty-Three

Mar 03, 2013 13:48

Day 23 - Most annoying characterDisclaimer first: like so many things, annoyance is in the eyes of the beholder. One person's much beloved character is another person's well of irritation, and I know I sometimes feel absurdly hurt reading my favourites torn to shreds by internet friends, so I apologize in advance. Another disclaimer: to me, there ( Read more... )

crusade, meme, battlestar galactica, babylon 5

Comments 11

falafel_musings March 3 2013, 13:51:00 UTC

I hated Bill Adama too though that might be part of my bias as a Felix Gaeta fangirl. Yet even outside Bill deciding he could forgive the cylons for genocide, terrorism, torture, etc, but he couldn't forgive one of his long-term loyal crewmen for mutiny after he forced a cylon collaboration on the fleet, well, I was always bugged by the arrogance and hypocrisy of this character. You've cited a great example of this from 'Sine Quo Non'. Bill really was so pigheaded and righteous, but it's the hypocrisy that really drove me crazy. He spoiled Roslin for me too in the final episodes (see my own S4 reviews http://falafel-musings.livejournal.com/tag/bsg%20reviews ). I hated his treatment of Boomer too. Oh and lastly agree that EJO really did chew the furniture and OMG why did someone not suggest that he tone it down?

selenak March 3 2013, 14:13:44 UTC

I found a way to recover my Roslin love by writing missing scenes for her set during those final bunch of episodes, not a single one of which features Adama and all of which are compatible with canon; they just give her her own agency. As a further inducement to you, the start of the story features Baltar talking to Roslin about Gaeta during Scales of Blood: The Quality of Mercy. :)

As to why no one told Olmos to tone it down: they even regarded Sine Qua Non as the showcase ep to present to the Emmys. Head. Desk.

falafel_musings March 4 2013, 18:49:03 UTC

Wow, thanks for reccing that fic! I always loved the Baltar & Roslin relationship but I don't think I ever got around to ficcing them together. As I recall I only wrote Roslin once (she's sooo hard!).

I would've loved to see any of these scenes onscreen in the final BSG season. Aside from her Bill ship, I didn't feel like Roslin made decisions based on personal biases. She was a ruthless corrupt politician but she was capable of seeing the bigger picture in a way that Bill wasn't. If Roslin exhibited hypocrisy and bloody-mindedness she at least seemed self-aware about it.

selenak March 5 2013, 19:11:41 UTC

After The Oath was broadcast, I wrote an essay about the Baltar & Roslin relationship throughout the show, which I was planning to revise later if they got more scenes in the rest of the season, but alas, no, hence fanfiction. :) (Also, the first inspiration really was "how did Baltar get to visit Gaeta before his execution and be present at said execution?", considering the unforgiving mood Adama was in re: poor Felix and the fact he had no reason to do Baltar any favours, either. The idea of Gaius asking Laura for mercy as an explanation just made sense to me.)

One key difference between Bill Adama and Laura Roslin: I don't think Roslin confused "loyal to me" with "is a good person". For Adama, these were always the same things, and when there was someone he perceived as disloyal, no matter the reasons, woe to that person. I recently rewatched The Plan which has that brief clip from Adama getting shot in it, which reminded me of something I had forgotten - that even first season Adama, i.e. the most likeable version, was so ( ... )

daybreak777 March 3 2013, 15:37:15 UTC

I've noticed that endings play a part in how you assess characters, scenes, shows. I hadn't thought about it. Maybe it's because it's rare that a good ending can save a bad show for me. And if someone annoys me, he annoys me (Mohinder and Peter on Heroes I'm looking directly at you) and there isn't anything that can change my mind on it. It would have to be some minor miracle of good acting and good writing that would come later in the show and honestly, that's never happened.

I guess first impressions hold for me. BSG is an interesting show because in the beginning things are good. Not just for Bill, but the show itself. But then things go off the rails never to be go back to where they were again. So is it a good show with a terrible ending? Can a good show have a terrible ending? Or is by virtue of the ending it's no longer qualified to be called 'good ( ... )

selenak March 3 2013, 16:53:46 UTC

I can change my mind if the writing and acting improves, definitely. Both for shows in totem and for individual characters. I guess because I imprinted so much on TNG, the first season of which was so mediocre to bad that the show would get cancelled today and back then only didn't get because everyone had waited for so long to get new Star Trek, and it was the only Sci Fi show on tv. And thus it had a chance to get better, which it did, and I came to love it a lot. And the characters.

So anyway - this is far from the only experience of that kind to me. Torchwood went from blah with a few good eps in the first season to entertaining in the second to awesome in the third (and then came the fourth, which was mixed, alas, some good, some bad). A character I was indifferent towards I came to love in the second season and from this point onwards. The Wire definitely changed my opinion on and emotions for several characters through the show.

Can a good show have a terrible ending? Or is by virtue of the ending it's no longer qualified ( ... )

astrogirl2 March 3 2013, 16:32:47 UTC

You know, even when you're hating on characters that I rather like, you do it so thoughtfully and entertainingly that I can't actually object. :)

(A big "hell, yes!" on Byron, though. But that is kinda like shooting telepaths in a barrel. :))

selenak March 3 2013, 16:47:02 UTC

Aw, you're just saying that because I never had a go at Stark.:) (I hasten to add that Stark's moments where he grates never came across as unintentional to me, and he had some of the most touching scenes of the show as well, which is why I never had a go at him!)

And yes, Byron is... ranting on him is just like fangirling Harrison Ford in the 80s.

astrogirl2 March 3 2013, 16:48:39 UTC

LOL! I can actually understand people not liking Stark, though. Even if those people are, in fact, Wrong. :)

And yes, Byron is... ranting on him is just like fangirling Harrison Ford in the 80s.

Ha! Well said. :)

beck_liz March 4 2013, 01:50:21 UTC

The sad thing is, I started out liking Bill Adama and ended up really disliking him. Oh, he could be immensely frustrating, but for awhile I could at least get where he was coming from, even if I disagreed with him. But then things went very downhill, and he became my least favorite character on the show. Which I would never have expected at the beginning.

selenak March 4 2013, 06:50:02 UTC

Oh, I liked him at the start of the show, too. The thing is, it's not like he suddenly aquired a new personality (which happened to some people I liked in other shows); you could see the traits that later made him so obnoxious early on, but back then they were held in check by more admirable qualities and also by the narrative. For example: mid s1, we have this great scene where Roslin confronts both Lee and Bill with them risking the safety of the entire fleet for Starbuck because they love Kara. And the story is on her side, and the men admit she's right, too. Not because the series doesn't love Kara as well or values her life, but because what's left of humanity is more important. Whereas in Sine Qua Non, not only does Adama risk the entire fleet for Roslin but he even rubs in his contempt and disregard for everyone but his immediate circle (Roslin, Tigh, Lee and Kara) while he's at it by refusing to give as much as an explanation or conversation not just to Zarek but to anyone at all. He completely abandons all his ( ... )