[TOKIO/Arashi] GQ Japan - Joshima x Ohno - 06/2011
Couldn't sleep at all, so I buckled down and translated this talk from last year between Joshima and Ohno-- in other words, TOKIO's and Arashi's leaders. They talked at length about the leadership (or lack thereof) within their respective groups, and also discussed the leaders of other older groups like V6, SMAP, and Shounentai. It's worth a read for the fans of any of these groups!
Scans by littlewinds if I'm not mistaken. Enjoy!
GQ Japan - Joshima x Ohno - 06/2011
A splendid day with the beloved leaders.
A REAL CHAT WITH THE LEADERS
TOKIO's leader, Joshima Shigeru, and Arashi's leader, Ohno Satoshi. This pair of senpai and kouhai leaders - who are the very picture of repose - will carry out their first serious talk ever! Will the leader figure presently sought after in Japan surface out of this!?
Joshima: We're supposed to be having a "Leader cross talk" between groups from Johnny's Jimusho today, but the truth is, I don't really come in contact much with Ohno, and we've never talked like this before.
Ohno: That's right. My first job after joining the agency was at TOKIO's concert in the Budokan, though. I was one of the many Juniors who were dancing. At the time, Joshima-kun was this daisenpai with a greater than life presence, so I never had the time to think about how I felt about you.
Joshima: Your debut was at the Budokan? What an elite. (laugh) For me, I came to Tokyo when I was 15 to work at a senpai's concert in the Nakano Sun Plaza. The president told me, "YOU, get out there!", but I was so scared I couldn't even get up on the stage.
Ohno: By the way, Joshima-kun, what was the reason behind you becoming the leader in TOKIO?
Joshima: Well, TOKIO's CD debut took place in 1994, but the group was formed before that as backdancers for Shounentai. At the time, fighting broke out between the members while we were in the car on our way to something. It was a petty fight, something like the guy sitting in the front reclining his seat back, which ended up hitting the guy sitting behind him in the knees. We were middle and high school kids, after all, around that age. Then, Uekusa (Katsuhide)-san, who was in the same car as us, said: "What the heck are you guys doing! Who's the leader here!?" When we answered, "We don't have one", he said, "So that's why you're acting like this. Decide on a leader right now! By janken!" [T/N: janken = rock paper scissors] We all thought, "Ehhhh, by janken?", but you can't disobey a senpai. It was because I won in that round of janken that I became the leader. "Yes, I got away!" I thought to myself when I won, but he said, "You're the leader since you won!". It felt just like drawing an unlucky number from a lot. I never had any titles like being the captain of a team or the class representative all through middle and high school, so I didn't think I would be good at it either.
Ohno: I was decided to be the Leader based on a round of janken too. When we appeared on Shounentai's "Shounentaimu" program, at one point they said "Since you don't have a leader, let's decide on it right now", and in the end it came down to a round of janken between (Sakurai) Sho-kun and I. I also won and thought "Yes~! I got away!", only to be told by Higashiyama (Noriyuki)-san that "It's you since you won, Ohno".
Joshima: Sure enough, that had something to do with the senpais, huh. (laugh)
Ohno: Up until then, Arashi had Sho-kun as the Study leader, Nino (Ninomiya Kazunari) as the Acting leader, MatsuJun (Matsumoto Jun) as the Comedy leader, Aiba (Masaki)-chan as the Idol leader, and I was the Dance leader. We all had our own appointed roles based on what we were good at. Since there were no problems with that, it felt weird to suddenly find myself the leader of the group. I'm bad at overseeing things or putting things in order, so I always thought that Sho-kun would be more suitable for it.
Joshima: Arashi doesn't have much of an age gap, so maybe there's a feeling of everyone being of equal rank. You're the oldest, aren't you, Ohno? Who's the youngest?
Ohno: MatsuJun and Nino. They're both three years younger than me.
Joshima: For TOKIO, when I was 20 years old, Nagase (Tomoya) was the youngest at 12 years and he was still wearing a randoseru [T/N: randoseru = schoolbag commonly used by elementary schoolchildren]. Matsuoka (Masahiro) was a middle schooler too. When you have an age gap that big, you can't help but take on the role of a caretaker. We didn't have a manager when our group was formed either, so I was the one who was responsible for keeping in touch with the agency too. If we needed black shoes, I'd be the one who would get everyone's sizes from them and go buy them, and I would make the arrangements for our costumes as well. I guess it was around that time that I demonstrated the most leadership skills (laugh). The president was always yelling at me about how it would be my fault if anything happened, so there was a sense of responsibility. After our CD debut, we got our own on-hand manager who started doing things for us to an extent, so I began to feel less and less like a leader (laugh). Nagase and Matsuoka started growing up and became incredible at acting and singing, so there was nothing left for me to teach them either.
Ohno: Well, I've never done anything from the very start.
The leader figure varies from group to group.
Joshima: I guess V6 would be the easiest group to compare TOKIO to out of all the Johnny's groups, with the fact that there is an age gap between the members. Their leader, Sakamoto (Masayuki), has a 9 year gap with Okada (Junichi) too. When I used to eat dinner with Sakamoto, I once asked him, "What kind of a leader are you?". Particularly at the time of their group forming, since the younger three were still in their early teens. They don't understand the grown up world at all. What Sakamoto first taught them was, "I started off with 'If I can't hear your greeting, it's not a greeting at all'." And it's true that when you have that big of an age gap, you need to take charge and lead; but once everyone grows up, they each take charge of their own affairs within the group. So I became aware of that at some point and stopped taking leadership of the group.
Ohno: Leadership, huh... it was impossible from the start for me. "Leader" was more of a nickname, and even if someone called me "Leader" it wouldn't actually register, because I always thought that the nickname "Leader" belonged to Joshima-kun. And now at the Countdown lives and stuff, when someone calls out "Leader!", Sakamoto-kun or Joshima-kun or even me, we all end up turning our heads (laugh).
Joshima: Things like the personalities and dynamics among members vary from group to group, so you can't make sweeping generalisations about what type of person would be most suitable to be the leader. For example, if Sakurai Sho won that round of janken and became the leader, Arashi might not come to have the same feel as it does today. In Arashi's case, I think it's because you're the leader that you've struck the balance of power that you have now. And there are examples of autocratic-type people who became the leader and succeeded at it too, right? To me, the person who completely embodied that sort of leader figure in the entertainment industry would be Ikariya Chosuke [T/N: A famous comedian and actor who passed away in 2004]. He was a strict and powerful leader whose members would never defy him. It was precisely that, that it was so funny when they would occasionally pull pranks on him.
Ohno: I was the backdancer for all sorts of senpais from my time as a Junior, but SMAP's Nakai (Masahiro)-kun, V6's Sakamoto-kun and TOKIO's Joshima-kun were all different when I watched you. So it made me think to myself, I guess it's okay to have different types of leaders. In my eyes, Nakai-kun was a very leader-like leader. He'd keep an eye on the atmosphere of the room, look after people, keep things in order. During concerts, he'd have a grasp of everything that goes on from costumes to whatever else, and even give his own opinion. When I was a Junior, I kept thinking about what an amazing person he was, and how I could never do it. In Joshima-kun's case, it was the complete opposite. You're a leader who's familiar with everyone in the group, someone who gets bullied by the other members and loved by all.
Joshima: Nakai-kun is a very scrupulous leader who does everything by careful calculations. There's a reason behind everything he does, from his actions to his speeches. He works extremely hard behind the scenes. He's the type who doesn't want to show the hard work he does to the world at all cost. A man's aesthetics, I guess you could say. Though I'm sure he wouldn't want it to be called aesthetics either. Ah, he'd be angry if he were to read this.
Ohno: You're pretty much from the same generation as Nakai-kun and Sakamoto-kun, aren't you? But all of you have different views as leaders. You'd rather not seem leader-like either, right Joshima-kun?
The two of them come up with the future leader figure.
Joshima: I think a leader could go either way. You can take the reins and display real leadership, or work in harmony with everyone. For you and I, I think we might be the latter. But in your case, Ohno, I thought you were really amazing when I came to see the stageplay you were in with our Matsuoka [T/N: True West in 2004]. You were like a whole different person, and I thought you were a great actor. You're already surpassing everyone else in singing and dancing, and you have the power of persuasion within those abilities. Matsuoka and (Kokubun) Taichi would say things like "Ohno's a natural airhead", but I think there are some in this world who lead not by words but by ability.
Ohno: I've never thought about wanting to be respected or been conscious of what I do, though. When people ask, "So, what kind of a disposition should a leader have?", I guess what would be necessary in a group like ours would be to have the members respecting one another. The five members of Arashi each have something that no one else has, and I think the key to our success lies in the mutual respect we have. That's why I prefer to take the stance of watching over them from the back rather than taking the lead. Arashi is the type of group that thrives on harmony, so I think having someone repressing them from above and not giving them a degree of freedom would prevent them from expressing their own personalities.
Joshima: What happens when opinions are split among members?
Ohno: That doesn't really happen in Arashi. Regardless of which, I tend to be the type to stay quiet.
Joshima: I generally keep my opinions to myself too. The majority of TOKIO's members are the type to have strong opinions and assert themselves, so I'd listen and nod. Yamaguchi (Tatsuya) is really good at taking in those opinions and arranging them all together. Since he's already got it all in order, it comes to an end without me needing to say anything.
Ohno: At times like those, MatsuJun would be the one to manage things in Arashi. That's how things go smoothly.
Joshima: Do you get mad at your Junior kouhais?
Ohno: I don't. I basically want things to be peaceful (laugh). But when we hold tours and have more opportunities to be around Juniors, they would start out all over the place and pull themselves together as we tour around the country together. Even if we say nothing to them, they would watch and learn from their senpais. I think we were like that too.
Joshima: It really does seem like the old hierarchical system is fading out, even amongst our generation. Quite some time ago, when I was doing a musical, I asked Shounentai's Higashiyama-san if he goes all out with the dancing or acting even during his rehearsals. And he said, "I treat rehearsals like they're the real thing, and the real thing like a rehearsal". "If you can't entrance a single director, you won't be able to touch the hearts of an entire packed audience." From that moment on, I looked up to Higashiyama-san as a mentor. But at the time, I just happened to ask that and he gave me that reply; I think explaining your own style and way of life like that is also another quality of a leader.
Ohno: Maybe what a leader is like changes with the times. I think that's good enough anyway.
Joshima: People say that the present Japan has no leaders, but I think that "absence" also reflects the current era. A 16 year old high school baseball player takes an oath. The grown up man who heard that might think, oh no, I can't lose to him. There's a self-realisation that it's us, the younger generation, who will shape the era. That sort of stimulation will become a source of motivation for us too.
Scans by littlewinds if I'm not mistaken. Enjoy!
GQ Japan - Joshima x Ohno - 06/2011
A splendid day with the beloved leaders.
A REAL CHAT WITH THE LEADERS
TOKIO's leader, Joshima Shigeru, and Arashi's leader, Ohno Satoshi. This pair of senpai and kouhai leaders - who are the very picture of repose - will carry out their first serious talk ever! Will the leader figure presently sought after in Japan surface out of this!?
Joshima: We're supposed to be having a "Leader cross talk" between groups from Johnny's Jimusho today, but the truth is, I don't really come in contact much with Ohno, and we've never talked like this before.
Ohno: That's right. My first job after joining the agency was at TOKIO's concert in the Budokan, though. I was one of the many Juniors who were dancing. At the time, Joshima-kun was this daisenpai with a greater than life presence, so I never had the time to think about how I felt about you.
Joshima: Your debut was at the Budokan? What an elite. (laugh) For me, I came to Tokyo when I was 15 to work at a senpai's concert in the Nakano Sun Plaza. The president told me, "YOU, get out there!", but I was so scared I couldn't even get up on the stage.
Ohno: By the way, Joshima-kun, what was the reason behind you becoming the leader in TOKIO?
Joshima: Well, TOKIO's CD debut took place in 1994, but the group was formed before that as backdancers for Shounentai. At the time, fighting broke out between the members while we were in the car on our way to something. It was a petty fight, something like the guy sitting in the front reclining his seat back, which ended up hitting the guy sitting behind him in the knees. We were middle and high school kids, after all, around that age. Then, Uekusa (Katsuhide)-san, who was in the same car as us, said: "What the heck are you guys doing! Who's the leader here!?" When we answered, "We don't have one", he said, "So that's why you're acting like this. Decide on a leader right now! By janken!" [T/N: janken = rock paper scissors] We all thought, "Ehhhh, by janken?", but you can't disobey a senpai. It was because I won in that round of janken that I became the leader. "Yes, I got away!" I thought to myself when I won, but he said, "You're the leader since you won!". It felt just like drawing an unlucky number from a lot. I never had any titles like being the captain of a team or the class representative all through middle and high school, so I didn't think I would be good at it either.
Ohno: I was decided to be the Leader based on a round of janken too. When we appeared on Shounentai's "Shounentaimu" program, at one point they said "Since you don't have a leader, let's decide on it right now", and in the end it came down to a round of janken between (Sakurai) Sho-kun and I. I also won and thought "Yes~! I got away!", only to be told by Higashiyama (Noriyuki)-san that "It's you since you won, Ohno".
Joshima: Sure enough, that had something to do with the senpais, huh. (laugh)
Ohno: Up until then, Arashi had Sho-kun as the Study leader, Nino (Ninomiya Kazunari) as the Acting leader, MatsuJun (Matsumoto Jun) as the Comedy leader, Aiba (Masaki)-chan as the Idol leader, and I was the Dance leader. We all had our own appointed roles based on what we were good at. Since there were no problems with that, it felt weird to suddenly find myself the leader of the group. I'm bad at overseeing things or putting things in order, so I always thought that Sho-kun would be more suitable for it.
Joshima: Arashi doesn't have much of an age gap, so maybe there's a feeling of everyone being of equal rank. You're the oldest, aren't you, Ohno? Who's the youngest?
Ohno: MatsuJun and Nino. They're both three years younger than me.
Joshima: For TOKIO, when I was 20 years old, Nagase (Tomoya) was the youngest at 12 years and he was still wearing a randoseru [T/N: randoseru = schoolbag commonly used by elementary schoolchildren]. Matsuoka (Masahiro) was a middle schooler too. When you have an age gap that big, you can't help but take on the role of a caretaker. We didn't have a manager when our group was formed either, so I was the one who was responsible for keeping in touch with the agency too. If we needed black shoes, I'd be the one who would get everyone's sizes from them and go buy them, and I would make the arrangements for our costumes as well. I guess it was around that time that I demonstrated the most leadership skills (laugh). The president was always yelling at me about how it would be my fault if anything happened, so there was a sense of responsibility. After our CD debut, we got our own on-hand manager who started doing things for us to an extent, so I began to feel less and less like a leader (laugh). Nagase and Matsuoka started growing up and became incredible at acting and singing, so there was nothing left for me to teach them either.
Ohno: Well, I've never done anything from the very start.
The leader figure varies from group to group.
Joshima: I guess V6 would be the easiest group to compare TOKIO to out of all the Johnny's groups, with the fact that there is an age gap between the members. Their leader, Sakamoto (Masayuki), has a 9 year gap with Okada (Junichi) too. When I used to eat dinner with Sakamoto, I once asked him, "What kind of a leader are you?". Particularly at the time of their group forming, since the younger three were still in their early teens. They don't understand the grown up world at all. What Sakamoto first taught them was, "I started off with 'If I can't hear your greeting, it's not a greeting at all'." And it's true that when you have that big of an age gap, you need to take charge and lead; but once everyone grows up, they each take charge of their own affairs within the group. So I became aware of that at some point and stopped taking leadership of the group.
Ohno: Leadership, huh... it was impossible from the start for me. "Leader" was more of a nickname, and even if someone called me "Leader" it wouldn't actually register, because I always thought that the nickname "Leader" belonged to Joshima-kun. And now at the Countdown lives and stuff, when someone calls out "Leader!", Sakamoto-kun or Joshima-kun or even me, we all end up turning our heads (laugh).
Joshima: Things like the personalities and dynamics among members vary from group to group, so you can't make sweeping generalisations about what type of person would be most suitable to be the leader. For example, if Sakurai Sho won that round of janken and became the leader, Arashi might not come to have the same feel as it does today. In Arashi's case, I think it's because you're the leader that you've struck the balance of power that you have now. And there are examples of autocratic-type people who became the leader and succeeded at it too, right? To me, the person who completely embodied that sort of leader figure in the entertainment industry would be Ikariya Chosuke [T/N: A famous comedian and actor who passed away in 2004]. He was a strict and powerful leader whose members would never defy him. It was precisely that, that it was so funny when they would occasionally pull pranks on him.
Ohno: I was the backdancer for all sorts of senpais from my time as a Junior, but SMAP's Nakai (Masahiro)-kun, V6's Sakamoto-kun and TOKIO's Joshima-kun were all different when I watched you. So it made me think to myself, I guess it's okay to have different types of leaders. In my eyes, Nakai-kun was a very leader-like leader. He'd keep an eye on the atmosphere of the room, look after people, keep things in order. During concerts, he'd have a grasp of everything that goes on from costumes to whatever else, and even give his own opinion. When I was a Junior, I kept thinking about what an amazing person he was, and how I could never do it. In Joshima-kun's case, it was the complete opposite. You're a leader who's familiar with everyone in the group, someone who gets bullied by the other members and loved by all.
Joshima: Nakai-kun is a very scrupulous leader who does everything by careful calculations. There's a reason behind everything he does, from his actions to his speeches. He works extremely hard behind the scenes. He's the type who doesn't want to show the hard work he does to the world at all cost. A man's aesthetics, I guess you could say. Though I'm sure he wouldn't want it to be called aesthetics either. Ah, he'd be angry if he were to read this.
Ohno: You're pretty much from the same generation as Nakai-kun and Sakamoto-kun, aren't you? But all of you have different views as leaders. You'd rather not seem leader-like either, right Joshima-kun?
The two of them come up with the future leader figure.
Joshima: I think a leader could go either way. You can take the reins and display real leadership, or work in harmony with everyone. For you and I, I think we might be the latter. But in your case, Ohno, I thought you were really amazing when I came to see the stageplay you were in with our Matsuoka [T/N: True West in 2004]. You were like a whole different person, and I thought you were a great actor. You're already surpassing everyone else in singing and dancing, and you have the power of persuasion within those abilities. Matsuoka and (Kokubun) Taichi would say things like "Ohno's a natural airhead", but I think there are some in this world who lead not by words but by ability.
Ohno: I've never thought about wanting to be respected or been conscious of what I do, though. When people ask, "So, what kind of a disposition should a leader have?", I guess what would be necessary in a group like ours would be to have the members respecting one another. The five members of Arashi each have something that no one else has, and I think the key to our success lies in the mutual respect we have. That's why I prefer to take the stance of watching over them from the back rather than taking the lead. Arashi is the type of group that thrives on harmony, so I think having someone repressing them from above and not giving them a degree of freedom would prevent them from expressing their own personalities.
Joshima: What happens when opinions are split among members?
Ohno: That doesn't really happen in Arashi. Regardless of which, I tend to be the type to stay quiet.
Joshima: I generally keep my opinions to myself too. The majority of TOKIO's members are the type to have strong opinions and assert themselves, so I'd listen and nod. Yamaguchi (Tatsuya) is really good at taking in those opinions and arranging them all together. Since he's already got it all in order, it comes to an end without me needing to say anything.
Ohno: At times like those, MatsuJun would be the one to manage things in Arashi. That's how things go smoothly.
Joshima: Do you get mad at your Junior kouhais?
Ohno: I don't. I basically want things to be peaceful (laugh). But when we hold tours and have more opportunities to be around Juniors, they would start out all over the place and pull themselves together as we tour around the country together. Even if we say nothing to them, they would watch and learn from their senpais. I think we were like that too.
Joshima: It really does seem like the old hierarchical system is fading out, even amongst our generation. Quite some time ago, when I was doing a musical, I asked Shounentai's Higashiyama-san if he goes all out with the dancing or acting even during his rehearsals. And he said, "I treat rehearsals like they're the real thing, and the real thing like a rehearsal". "If you can't entrance a single director, you won't be able to touch the hearts of an entire packed audience." From that moment on, I looked up to Higashiyama-san as a mentor. But at the time, I just happened to ask that and he gave me that reply; I think explaining your own style and way of life like that is also another quality of a leader.
Ohno: Maybe what a leader is like changes with the times. I think that's good enough anyway.
Joshima: People say that the present Japan has no leaders, but I think that "absence" also reflects the current era. A 16 year old high school baseball player takes an oath. The grown up man who heard that might think, oh no, I can't lose to him. There's a self-realisation that it's us, the younger generation, who will shape the era. That sort of stimulation will become a source of motivation for us too.