Comments | rodneyorpheus: Copying is not stealing, mmmkay?

rodneyorpheus

Copying is not stealing, mmmkay?

Jul 05, 2009 09:10

I just left this on my friend Richard's blog when he discussed the "copying CDs is stealing" issue. I've been struggling with this for many years (one reason why I haven't made a CD in a while, I'm morally unsure of what it means anymore), but I'm slowly getting to a place where I think I am starting to understand this fully...

"Illegal downloading ( Read more... )

society, technology, media, politics, music

Comments 16

lee_chaos July 5 2009, 11:31:38 UTC

That's about the best piece on downloading I've read - and I've read a LOT. Excellent stuff!

cygninae July 5 2009, 11:44:53 UTC

That actually makes a HELL of a lot of sense.

christeos_pir July 5 2009, 14:51:27 UTC

But the parallel, if I understand it, is to print media.

If I photocopy (not "Xerox") Abrahadabra and start selling copies, and not a penny comes to you, your publisher, etc., isn't that stealing?

rodneyorpheus July 5 2009, 17:54:23 UTC

No, it's not. It's copyright infringement (for making the copy) and bootlegging (for selling it), neither of which is the same as stealing, in fact or in law. And the two things you have done that are illegal (the copying and the bootlegging) are also two completely distinct and different things.

I DO give away Abrahadabra for free: there are authorised German, Spanish and Croatian translations on the Web now that I'm happy to see copied and spread around. I'd also happily make the English version available for free download but my English language publisher won't allow it.

With my new book (which is really honestly NEARLY finished right now) I'd LIKE to make it available for free download, but also get it published in a mass-market paperback - unfortunately that's EXTREMELY difficult because few publishers will allow it. Am currently negotiating to see if I can get a way around it.

As regards you SELLING an illegally printed version, that's a different medium, and a different story...

christeos_pir July 5 2009, 18:08:55 UTC

> As regards you SELLING an illegally printed version, that's a different medium, and a different story...

That is what I was asking... but I gather the distinction you're drawing is when copies are shared for free and not charged-for. I take it you don't subscribe to the idea that the lost sales outweigh the gain in publicity and goodwill? (The idea that the benefits outweigh the potential losses is much more popular in places like Japan, for example, where fanfic/fanart and fansubs are not only tolerated, they're often downright encouraged.)

venome_relc July 5 2009, 20:08:39 UTC

In all this "legal-illegal" thing the weak point is - none of those people who say that it is a crime can ever define where this "crime" starts.
1. I buy a CD - here everything is clear/
2. I rip a CD in order to listen it as MP3 and be able to use it on my DJ station. Is it OK? Or should I have bought MP3s legally as well?
3. I copy CD for playing it in clubs, just for my convenience. Is it a crime? Or should I play original only and buy a new CD every time I have a scratch on the original one and don't want to risk damaging the player?

And so on, and so forth. I really hate whhen people stand up to some idea that is not just doubtful, it is absolutely unclear and undefined.

rodneyorpheus July 6 2009, 06:51:25 UTC

You actually hit upon an extremely important point here, which I think I'll have to elaborate on in another article. In short ( ... )

venome_relc July 6 2009, 12:26:05 UTC

More than that, If you buy DVD and invite me and another 50 of your friends to watch it with you - you are technically committing a crime :) Curiouser and curiouser ( ... )

mythlore July 6 2009, 05:37:29 UTC

You're confusing pragmatism with ethics. Great subject and I agree with everything but the first bit. If I pay for a movie, then let all my friends in the exit door, am I stealing? Clearly doing something someone doesn't want you to do with something they created or operate is a form of stealing, even if there's no tangible transfer of goods. If you go with the free model and profit from concerts, you certainly wouldn't want everyone sneaking in.

Now is it practical to ignore the realities of the internet? Hell no! You're right on the money there. Exposure is 99% of the battle and the free models are working.

rodneyorpheus July 6 2009, 06:30:53 UTC

It is most definitely NOT "clearly... a form of stealing" - and some would say that lack of clarity has been deliberately fostered by those with a vested interest ( ... )

mythlore July 6 2009, 07:15:57 UTC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_of_services

Theft of services is legally recognized and would apply to the theater situation as you bypassed the pay gate. I realize it's a gray area, but in theory, any claim of ownership or a disruption of any business model could be followed by a claim of theft.

I can think of many of software company that went under due to piracy. Clearly there's something to be said for controlling access to costly, high value, low volume virtual goods as the high volume free model wouldn't work.