Sam's level of "BZUH?" is really getting to me. He's incredibly smart, why aren't things adding up? This is a part I have a hard time accepting. There's been so many incidents of things being out of kilter, as well as Dean being an uncharacteristically bad liar. Actually, as I typed that sentence, I thought about how much the brothers lie to each other. AAAND I lost the thought. Damn.
I know Sam is easily talked into his weakness by Dean. But why hasn't Sam called Dean out on his shit yet? Sam's reactions are getting more and more "what you talkin' about, biatch?". In other words, pissed more than baffled. Didn't he notice his neck was covered in blood?
(1) You cannot out-logic gaslighting. This isn't about being smart - as percysowner details below, there are strong canonical indications that Sam would be more vulnerable to this than most people, not less. (2) There's also not, like, a linear correlation between "weird shit" and "stuff you can comprehend enough to form a cogent objection to," you know? People are capable of blocking out an incredible amount of cognitive dissonance, and sometimes, the worse it gets, the farther we get from understanding. Sam's just living with a buzz of "something's weird here" static with no recognizable source. He's pissed about having the trials thrown in his face specifically, because he did them to show his strength, but that's an emotional irritation that would distract him from the other issues. (3) It is all so bizarre, and as the chef points out, there's very, very few supernatural creatures with that kind of healing power. If Sam were to accept his understanding of what's happening to him, he would HAVE to guess "angel." But "angel
( ... )
For me the other horrific part of Sam losing time is that he spent half of season six, literally not knowing what his body had done for a year and a half and he was under Dean's strict instructions to not even try to find out. Then he spends most of season seven utterly insane, unable to tell reality from hallucination. The only one he had to rely on was Dean "I'm stone #1 I'll keep you grounded in reality. I let Amy live. No I didn't. How DARE you be angry with me for more than a week, because I was right to kill her and you weren't CAPABLE of knowing what is right or wrong." Winchester. I have to think that it is quite possible that Sam has every reason to believe that his losing time and memories are because he is losing his sanity again. I mean Cas, the angel that healed him, isn't an angel anymore and who knows if his healing will last now that Cas is human. And Dean was very clear last season that once Martin had been in an Asylum and gotten treatment for mental illness, that Martin was NO LONGER TO BE TRUSTED because once
( ... )
YES EXACTLY. This is my big concern, really, is how the dots will be connected between Dean's long-standing pattern of exactly this behavior and what's happening now. I mean, obviously THE RITURRRZZZ get it! I just don't know if there's an anvil heavy enough to get it through the heads of a disturbingly large part of fandom.
I have to think that it is quite possible that Sam has every reason to believe that his losing time and memories are because he is losing his sanity again. I mean Cas, the angel that healed him, isn't an angel anymore and who knows if his healing will last now that Cas is human.
This is chilling but totally plausible. I wonder if it's occurred to him.
Dean lied to a mentally ill Sam and let Sam believe in a falsehood back in season seven AND got Sam to say that Dean's view of the world was right and Sam's was wrong. It's one of the reasons I hated Dean for the whole lie about Amy and Sam caving just so he had someone who would keep him grounded in reality, even when Dean was only going to keep him grounded in
( ... )
I mean, it's so bizarre and improbable that I don't think it's likely to sink in for him until something dramatic and sudden happens - like, he singes himself on holy fire or he runs into an angel who knew Ezekiel or something.
I dont think there ever would be a anvil big enough to get a large part of the fandom to reassess their idea of Dean. It is all shrouded in this 'he loves Sam so much that there is not anything he would not do for him' mantra. I have found the whole situation since the premiere disturbing that Sam has so little control over his self and that Dean has so much control that any decision he makes is seen has sympathetic by the fandom. If we go into Sam learning the truth with Dean having a wave of sympathy behind him then Sam's hurt and rightful anger is going to be twisted in some way I want Sam to be allowed to be hurt by this undermining of his autonomy and that control was usurped once again. Not just be Dean but by Ezekiel as well.
There's definitely some of fandom that's never going to get it, but I at least want them not to be controlling so much of the conversation about the show.
I have found the whole situation since the premiere disturbing that Sam has so little control over his self and that Dean has so much control that any decision he makes is seen has sympathetic by the fandom.
Yeah, it's a big problem. People feel like "Dean did something I know is shitty -> Dean must feel really bad about it because I couldn't like someone who's doing something so awful without sufficient regret -> in fact I am so sympathetic to Dean that he must be feeling disproportionately guilty -> POOR BABY DEAN."
If we go into Sam learning the truth with Dean having a wave of sympathy behind him then Sam's hurt and rightful anger is going to be twisted in some way I want Sam to be allowed to be hurt by this undermining of his autonomy and that control was usurped once again. Not just be Dean but by Ezekiel as well. I admit I'm a little more lenient toward Ezekiel, given
( ... )
Sam did the trials to prove that he was worthwhile to Dean, and now here Dean is using the trials as an excuse to put him down and tell him he’s the load. AGAIN.
And on, and on, AND ON. I get that Dean is trying to make sure Sam doesn't get into any near-fatal situations again so that Ezekiel can heal faster--and therefore leave sooner? But damn, it hurts to watch. It hurts to watch him undermine Sam's confidence in himself; it hurts to see Sam floundering because he's being lied to from the inside and out. Dean and Ezekiel--a two man team that subtly reshapes Sam's reality and traps him in a metaphorical and physical cocoon wherein he feels secure, yet horribly, horribly in the dark.
I get that Dean is trying to make sure Sam doesn't get into any near-fatal situations again so that Ezekiel can heal faster--and therefore leave sooner? But damn, it hurts to watch
Well, that, but he could've kept them off the case by saying any number of things. I'm worried about Kevin, let's try to track down some lead from Crowley, I don't feel good so let's stay home. His go-to excuse is YOU SUCK SAM, and a pattern this consistent says something about what Dean WANTS to do. He's cutting Sam down like this because he wants to cut Sam down, and Zeke is just the most recent rationalization.
it hurts to see Sam floundering because he's being lied to from the inside and out. Dean and Ezekiel--a two man team that subtly reshapes Sam's reality and traps him in a metaphorical and physical cocoon wherein he feels secure, yet horribly, horribly in the dark.
I know I like to reference The Yellow Wallpaper because it's the greatest, but like....how is this not The Yellow Wallpaper?!
Comments 16
I know Sam is easily talked into his weakness by Dean. But why hasn't Sam called Dean out on his shit yet? Sam's reactions are getting more and more "what you talkin' about, biatch?". In other words, pissed more than baffled. Didn't he notice his neck was covered in blood?
Reply
(1) You cannot out-logic gaslighting. This isn't about being smart - as percysowner details below, there are strong canonical indications that Sam would be more vulnerable to this than most people, not less.
(2) There's also not, like, a linear correlation between "weird shit" and "stuff you can comprehend enough to form a cogent objection to," you know? People are capable of blocking out an incredible amount of cognitive dissonance, and sometimes, the worse it gets, the farther we get from understanding. Sam's just living with a buzz of "something's weird here" static with no recognizable source. He's pissed about having the trials thrown in his face specifically, because he did them to show his strength, but that's an emotional irritation that would distract him from the other issues.
(3) It is all so bizarre, and as the chef points out, there's very, very few supernatural creatures with that kind of healing power. If Sam were to accept his understanding of what's happening to him, he would HAVE to guess "angel." But "angel ( ... )
Reply
Reply
I have to think that it is quite possible that Sam has every reason to believe that his losing time and memories are because he is losing his sanity again. I mean Cas, the angel that healed him, isn't an angel anymore and who knows if his healing will last now that Cas is human.
This is chilling but totally plausible. I wonder if it's occurred to him.
Dean lied to a mentally ill Sam and let Sam believe in a falsehood back in season seven AND got Sam to say that Dean's view of the world was right and Sam's was wrong. It's one of the reasons I hated Dean for the whole lie about Amy and Sam caving just so he had someone who would keep him grounded in reality, even when Dean was only going to keep him grounded in ( ... )
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Reply
If we go into Sam learning the truth with Dean having a wave of sympathy behind him then Sam's hurt and rightful anger is going to be twisted in some way I want Sam to be allowed to be hurt by this undermining of his autonomy and that control was usurped once again. Not just be Dean but by Ezekiel as well.
Reply
I have found the whole situation since the premiere disturbing that Sam has so little control over his self and that Dean has so much control that any decision he makes is seen has sympathetic by the fandom.
Yeah, it's a big problem. People feel like "Dean did something I know is shitty -> Dean must feel really bad about it because I couldn't like someone who's doing something so awful without sufficient regret -> in fact I am so sympathetic to Dean that he must be feeling disproportionately guilty -> POOR BABY DEAN."
If we go into Sam learning the truth with Dean having a wave of sympathy behind him then Sam's hurt and rightful anger is going to be twisted in some way I want Sam to be allowed to be hurt by this undermining of his autonomy and that control was usurped once again. Not just be Dean but by Ezekiel as well. I admit I'm a little more lenient toward Ezekiel, given ( ... )
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Reply
And on, and on, AND ON. I get that Dean is trying to make sure Sam doesn't get into any near-fatal situations again so that Ezekiel can heal faster--and therefore leave sooner? But damn, it hurts to watch. It hurts to watch him undermine Sam's confidence in himself; it hurts to see Sam floundering because he's being lied to from the inside and out. Dean and Ezekiel--a two man team that subtly reshapes Sam's reality and traps him in a metaphorical and physical cocoon wherein he feels secure, yet horribly, horribly in the dark.
God, I love this season.
Reply
Well, that, but he could've kept them off the case by saying any number of things. I'm worried about Kevin, let's try to track down some lead from Crowley, I don't feel good so let's stay home. His go-to excuse is YOU SUCK SAM, and a pattern this consistent says something about what Dean WANTS to do. He's cutting Sam down like this because he wants to cut Sam down, and Zeke is just the most recent rationalization.
it hurts to see Sam floundering because he's being lied to from the inside and out. Dean and Ezekiel--a two man team that subtly reshapes Sam's reality and traps him in a metaphorical and physical cocoon wherein he feels secure, yet horribly, horribly in the dark.
I know I like to reference The Yellow Wallpaper because it's the greatest, but like....how is this not The Yellow Wallpaper?!
God, I love this season.
I KNOW RIGHT?!
Reply
Leave a comment