cop shows for people who don't like cop shows: 1/?

[pocochina]

Probably I should've counted tonight's post on The Wire as the first of these posts, but I didn't really think it through. STILL. TNT has (at least) three great cop shows for people who don't like cop shows. Or, at least, people (me) who do occasionally like cop shows but have certain serious concerns about the genre. Tonight's addressed concern

Comments

[obsessive_a101]

Just so you know, my heart soared while reading this (and also, because I have a similar post currently in the works LOL). :D

And you already know I had many of the same "issues" as you with The Closer, also this interview with MM really shows just how aware she is of all the dynamics, and gods, I am so glad she's acknowledging Sharon's acknowledgment of Emma Rios' character. As opposed to "that woman" or the wicked witch, we get "more complicated than we expected", which practically made me leap with joy. :D :D :D

Anyway, I have to go to bed now. ><" Should really go to bed. NIGHT!!!!!

[pocochina]

I hope you're up for posting, I'll be really interested in your thoughts!

As opposed to "that woman" or the wicked witch, we get "more complicated than we expected", which practically made me leap with joy. :D :D :D

Yes! Like, I thought it made perfect sense with what I knew of Brenda's character, that she would be very invested in being Not Like Other Women, which is ofc a thing a lot of women grapple with at some point. I just didn't like that it was the ONLY type of interaction between women that I ever saw. It was a flaw in the old show; I guess we can't know who put the initiative in to fix it but I commend that effort a lot. I think it improves MC just on a technical level as well as giving it even more interesting things to say.

[obsessive_a101]

LOL - Well, I did think she had a decent working relationship with the female detective that started out on her team in earlier seasons (something I only know by way of osmosis on Tumblr), but otherwise, from what I've seen - from Hobbs' first appearance to Raydor's first appearance, yeah... I think the real problem is that she is so very much a competitive personality (as astreamofstars mentioned so well below, she always felt more to me as if she was in it not really for "JUSTICE" so much as her own "right", and so "winning") and her tendency to bulldoze over anyone and everyone whether right or wrong, legal or illegal, if she doesn't get her way, makes it rather difficult to uhmm... swallow her down at times. ><" There's something to be said about ambition and devotion to the job, but when it becomes outright bullying and manipulation - THAT becomes a problem, especially when it goes unchecked in a system of power that can easily be abused. :3

[pocochina]

Right. And for whatever reason - maybe because she had this picture of herself as being the always-underestimated underdog - she just never understood the difference between "someone getting in HER PERSONAL WAY" and "someone actually obstructing the investigation." Which is an interesting thing to explore, just not in a way where her POV is the only POV the audience gets, and ofc it doesn't happen in a vacuum, but with a million other shows giving the same message.

[percysowner]

Raydor works closely and on-screen with several women from the DA's office, and the squad's newest member is Sharon's ambitious young protegee Sykes(who IIRC - though see above re: missing most of The Closer - is the first major WOC character in a franchise that's more racially diverse than most comparable series).She is actually the second WOC in the series. There was a character in seasons 1-4 named Irene Daniels played by Gina Ravara who was African-American/Puerto Rican. She was involved in an affair with Gabriel and when the actress decided to leave the show she broke up with Gabriel and they became unable to work together, partly because Gabriel was a total and complete brat about the whole situation. He demeaned her and eventually they were given the ultimatum that one had to go. Since the actress was leaving and Gabriel was one of Brenda Leigh's favorites, Daniels transferred

[pocochina]

There was a character in seasons 1-4 named Irene Daniels played by Gina Ravara who was African-American/Puerto Rican. She was involved in an affair with Gabriel and when the actress decided to leave the show she broke up with Gabriel and they became unable to work together, partly because Gabriel was a total and complete brat about the whole situation. He demeaned her and eventually they were given the ultimatum that one had to go.

WOW I missed a lot! It was one of those shows that for a few months was just always on every time I hit the treadmill so I feel like I've seen at least a fair amount of it, but maybe not. And...I think I'll live.

I don't know if you started watching when Sharon Raydor was first introduced, but I far preferred her first relationship with Brenda, in which they thoroughly disliked each other. Being TV, Raydor had to eventually come to "respect" Brenda and be on her side.

I REALLY TRIED to start watching for Raydor's first few episodes! And yes, I really appreciated that someone came in to challenge her.

[percysowner]

oooooh, interesting. Is that something you think the show retained over time? It just sounds a little toothless as the critique it could be, given the way Brenda turned out - ie, someone who might or might not have had a useful field skill but clearly had no business running and setting an example for a team of people. (I do think that's something MC fixed, with Provenza getting snapped out of his own egotistical bullshit, and fairly quickly at that.)This did not carry over in time. By the end of the first season, the male detectives, barring Taylor the African/American "comic" character (who was passed over so Brenda could take charge) had all come to accept that Brenda was JUST THAT GOOD and they took to her no holds barred, make them confess no matter what world view. Provenza started out with his male egotistical bullshit, but then he bought into Brenda's egotistical bullshit, so less sexist, but still bullshit

[pocochina]

The only time the gender politics really reared their head was when Brenda and Pope went head to head to become Chief of Police. On one hand Pope was the absolute definition of white, male entitlement. He was fairly clear that once Brenda knew he was going for the position, she should just step aside and let him take it. Delk, the African/American who won the job was never a consideration, like I said very much WHITE male privilege was on display.

Yeah, I think one could argue that it caught something real there? In that women - even women with some standout talent or another - are never taught leadership skills, or encouraged to develop the confidence that can help with credibility. So then the pool of women with authority tools shrinks to natural leaders like Sharon, at least some of whom will then be penalized for their own competence. But the show did the WORST POSSIBLE thing about that, in showing us someone who was terrible for the position, and then telling us that she deserved it because OBVIOUSLY EVERYONE BOWS BEFORE HER

[myfriendamy]

ha your thoughts on The Closer are interesting since it is basically my favorite procedural ever. (I don't really like procedurals much, not because they make a mockery of the justice system so much as I just find them dry and boring.) I think I understand your problems with it, but I guess I was less interested in watching it as a way the criminal justice system works and more focused on whether or not the cases were interesting and surprising/well written. I felt like The Closer, particularly in its earlier seasons, was a show I consistently looked forward to watching for those reasons. I liked watching the characters as well, though, so I don't know...lol. Maybe I just like some of that stuff you don't

[pocochina]

(I don't really like procedurals much, not because they make a mockery of the justice system so much as I just find them dry and boring.)

I'm the opposite in that I actually kind of like the procedural format. It's like the easy Monday sudoku - not really something that'll rev up your mind, but still a little bit of problem solving. But this issue gets in the way a lot for me, though never as much as it did on The Closer.

BUT! I really like Rizzoli & Isles, and I'm hoping to get a post on Perception up this weekend.

[astreamofstars]

I'm so happy you love this show. I hope for ALL THE META on Sharon Raydor at some point from you, because I still clutch your Laura Roslin meta to my chest like anything.

It does really make me smile that this show seems, in lots of subtle little ways, to be kicking back at the typical fare on TV. I remember commenting to rococoms a while back, when looking at a photo line up of the cast at some awards show or other, just how awesome it was that out of the ten or so people there, only maybe three of them were straight white guys. And only one of them was your typical teenage hearthrob type. There's such a great mix of races, ages, genders, sexualities amoungst the cast that carries over into the show, and it's just great

[pocochina]

I am really interested to see her relationship with her husband (ex-husband?). I didn't know anything about it, though, so that's kind of exciting to read about

[astreamofstars]

Well, we don't know a whole lot about him yet, except that he drank and gambled and they lived together for a while then got legally separated, but never divorced. And Mary's said in a few interviews recently that they have what she describes as a very unorthodox relationship and that they should be divorced and yet aren't and that sometimes they make a great couple and sometimes they really, really don't. She seems super excited about playing it. He's being played by Tom Berenger, if you weren't aware of that? There's a three episode arc where he shows up in a few episodes time.

So, I don't know, it could be a disaster, but I think it could be fascinating.

[penny_lane_42]

I just saw part of the latest episode the other night at my parents'. My mama watched The Closer pretty consistently, so I've seen episodes of it here and there. I don't think I'll watch Major Crimes with any regularity, but I'm glad to hear it's being so consistently good!

[pocochina]

ha. I tried to watch The Closer with my mom a while ago and I think I spoiled her fun pointing out all the ways Brenda was horrible. Of course that meant talking over THE WHOLE EPISODE, so.