A question... And some more banners

[ningloreth]

A couple of posts by people on my f-list, (whose names I won't mention because this is in no way a comment on what they said), have again got me pondering something I've been wondering for a while

Comments

[curiouswombat]

I think the idea of the Bechdel test is necessary - to point out that there is such an imbalance in so much fiction whether on page or screen. But the actual test itself is really much too simplistic, too black and white.

I really like the new banners - and I would be happy to go back and reread Shadowland - but I remember that I didn't read it when I first found it - I am sure it wasn't the cross-over element and so I am not sure why I skipped over... so it would be interesting to see what you feel need rewriting.

[ningloreth]

the actual test itself is really much too simplistic

Yes, like those silly Mary-Sue tests. But I have seen it used as some sort of standard -- AO3 even has a 'Passes the Bechdel test' tag!

I didn't read it when I first found it - I am sure it wasn't the cross-over element and so I am not sure why I skipped over...It's a pity you don't remember, because I'd love to know! It's like a poor relation, or a Victorian orphan, or something. When I was writing it, my Dad was very ill, and I was spending a lot of time driving to Manchester and back, etc, struggling to keep the story going, with only half of my mind focussed on it, and it changed direction, and it grew, and got out of hand

[curiouswombat]

'Passes the Bechdel test' tag!But why would anybody care? AO3's 'all fanfic writers are women writing for women, and if they aren't they ought to be, but we will tolerate men as long as they realise it is a feminine pursuit' underpinnings showing again, I presume

[kazzy_cee]

Sorry to hear about the stress!

I love the banners :)

[ningloreth]

Thank you!

[thismaz]

What beautiful banners. Absolutely beautiful.

[ningloreth]

Thank you :-)

[quinara]

I think your situation would fail the Bechdel Test - but that wouldn't necessarily mean that the situation was anti-feminist or whatever, just that it failed the Bechdel Test, which is a tool to aid analysis rather than any real analysis in and of itself. Similarly, making your villain a woman so that your detectives could pass the Bechdel test would be sexist or not depending on, you know, whether your story was sexist or not. :D

Anyway, pretty banners!

[ningloreth]

I think your situation would fail the Bechdel Test...

Good! That was my intention.

...a tool to aid analysis rather than any real analysis in and of itself...

What I've been pondering is that, like a lot of these things, it's used as so much more than that -- as some sort of 'standard'. I noticed the other day that even AO3 has a 'Passes the Bechdel test' tag!

And I have so many objections to that, I can't even begin to pin them all down. Setting aside the fact that there's a large percentage of the female population who would consider failing the Bechdel test a recommendation (chick lit, chick flicks) and, though I wouldn't want to be one, it's their choice...

My main ... gripe, I suppose the word is, is that restricting a female character's behaviour to behaviours that 'they' deem 'non-sexist' is still restricting a (female) character's behaviour (as well as the writer's creativity, and downgrading the importance of 'the story

[quinara]

Ah, it all makes sense now! And I'm pretty much in agreement. :D

If I really wanted my women to pass the Bechdel test I would make them lesbians and have them discuss getting the female hero into bed, purely to validate her status as hero :-)

I tend to find it incredibly easy to pass the Bechdel test - you just need two women/female characters and let them talk about themselves. Everyone likes talking about themselves!