Confessions of a Doctor/Rose Shipper

[mls03j]

Yesterday, mrv3000 was talking about feeling left out of fandom because she doesn’t think “The Fires of Pompeii” was “the best episode Doctor Who ever had!” I’ve been there. I was in the Doctor Who fandom for more than a year before I stumbled across the SPDN. And there are times when I’m not sure I fit in here, either.

It’s just… I can’t always feel the

Comments

[a_white_rain]

The same reasons you dislike parts of Ten/Rose - they're the ones I do like. I like them being flawed. They both have issues (the Doctor especially) and I like that that isn't ignored. We got forty years of canon plus the fact he killed off his entire race. If he wasn't an asshole sometimes, I wouldn't be able to buy his characterization.

But a lot of it stems from how I ship. Most of ships I have are much darker in nature. Doctor/Rose is so healthy to me it's kind of alien. It's fun and new to be invested in something I don't think is as bad for the characters as it is good, but it's a new thing.

It puts me at odds with the fandom as a whole. People will tell me that Rose/Ten is unhealthy and I'll stare at them because the last ship I felt just as strongly about had one character murdering his SO's twin sister. Especially if people pull Nine/Rose is healthier and missing the entire part where Nine manipulated the hell out of her, and she did the same to him.

[mls03j]

The same reasons you dislike parts of Ten/Rose-they’re the ones I do like. I like them being flawed. They both have issues (the Doctor especially) and I like that that isn’t ignored.

Well, the episodes I mentioned-“School Reunion,” “The Girl in the Fireplace,” and “Doomsday”-are also my favorite parts of season two. That’s why all of my reasons for shipping Ten/Rose came from those same episodes. What bothers me is the deafening silence in the rest of the season. I needed to see how Rose got from “What do I do? Do I stay with him?” to “I made my choice a long time ago, and I’m never gonna leave you.” (’Cause she didn’t look all that sure at the end of “School Reunion.”) And I just… don’t. Not really.

[a_white_rain]

Well, that never bugged me. Rose made he choice in TPOTW and never really regretted it until School Reunion, where she was told some things were worth getting her heart broken for. And then was told that the Doctor was worth the monsters. And then Mickey walked his own path without her. So I never had any problem with that transition. Because I saw Rose making the choice to stay with the Doctor, despite the pain.

[mrv3000]

I could sit here and counter a lot of stuff you've talked about, but you probably aren't really looking for arguments, so much as just saying why you're not at a place so many others are.

Anyway, I found it interesting to see where you're coming from. Not in an "I must shun you now" way, but more academic.

[mls03j]

I could sit here and counter a lot of stuff you’ve talked about, but you probably aren’t really looking for arguments.

Not really, no. I’ve actually tried talking myself out of some of them. But… I think you’re the one who said you can’t always talk logic at people’s issues. Unfortunately, it turns out you can’t even talk logic at your own. :-(

(I hope I didn’t sound anti-ship, ’cause I’m not. I just… have a lot of unresolved issues with season two, I guess. But if I start going on about how Ten and Rose made each other bad people, feel free to smack me.)

[rynne]

I agree with a few of those. I love Nine/Rose and Ten/Rose about equally, but I have...several problems with S2, including some things you haven't mentioned here. But on the whole, I accept and enjoy Ten/Rose because a lot of S2, to me, is the Doctor making his way (sometimes very incompetently) through his mountain of issues to end up at the point where he can ask Rose how long she's stay with him, and smile when she says forever--and because Rose really blossomed (hah, pun not intended :p) into someone completely the Doctor's partner and equal. I don't like some of the twists each took on the road to that point, but overall, I'm satisfied with the journey, and am really looking forward to seeing the next stage. (Well, as long as RTD doesn't screw it up. *crosses fingers*)

[mls03j]

But on the whole, I accept and enjoy Ten/Rose because a lot of S2, to me, is the Doctor making his way (sometimes very incompetently) through his mountain of issues to end up at the point where he can ask Rose how long she’s stay with him, and smile when she says forever-and because Rose really blossomed (hah, pun not intended :p) into someone completely the Doctor’s partner and equal.

Actually, I tend to agree with you. I guess I’m just a bit slow. I can see point a, point b, and point c, but I really needed-or maybe I just wanted-the writers to connect the dots for me. Which is weird, ’cause I was happy to play connect-the-dots in season one. Rose’s journey from shopgirl to epic hero had some pretty big gaps in it, and I didn’t even notice the Doctor’s half of the story till after “Doomsday.” So I’m not sure why it bothered me in season two. (Did I really hate “School Reunion” that much?)

I don’t like some of the twists each took on the road to that point, but overall, I’m satisfied with the journey, and am really looking forward

[haro]

I have one huge problem with your arguments against Ten/Rose. Would it have been any different if it were still Nine/Rose in the situations you quoted? I don't think so, at least not in the specific instances you brought up. Although, I'd be interested in how you think they might be. Because if they wouldn't be different (and I don't see how they would, although you may digress), then I would see these as problems with Doctor/Rose as a whole, not Ten/Rose.

And I agree with above commenters that the buildup for her comments in Doomsday have been there since Parting of the Ways. She essentially made the same decision there.

edit: Here via the_spdn

[mls03j]

Would it have been any different if it were still Nine/Rose in the situations you quoted?

I don’t think so. I was using Ten/Rose as a kind of shorthand for “the Doctor and Rose in season two.” That’s why I mentioned that his lying to her about what happened on the Game Station actually started in “The Parting of the Ways” (i.e., while he was still Nine). That’s also the first time he sent her away against her will. But that was at the end of season one. The earliest they could’ve dealt with it was in season two. And I don’t really feel like they did.

And I agree with above commenters that the buildup for her comments in “Doomsday” have been there since “The Parting of the Ways.” She essentially made the same decision there.

She might’ve made the same decision in “Doomsday” that she did in “The Parting of the Ways.” But I liked her speech in “The Parting of the Ways” better: “The Doctor showed me a better way of living your life. That you don’t just give up. You don’t just let things happen. You make a stand. You say no. You have

[nostariel]

I might be the only shipper in the fandom who doesn’t like that scene.

I didn't either! I thought the response would be like, "Mum, you're talkin' crazy. I'm not gonna become an alien, and even if I did, I'd still be your daughter. This is my life, this is my choice. This is what I want. I can't stay at home forever."

I figured he’d fold like a deck of cards when things got difficult.

AND THEN HE TOTALLY DID.

/bitter

P.S. - I forgot how much I loved this entry!

[mls03j]

I thought the response would be like, ‘Mum, you’re talkin’ crazy.’

Are you talking about Jackie’s little speech in “Army of Ghosts”? “She’s not Rose Tyler. Not anymore. She’s not even human…” ’Cause what you’re suggesting would’ve been the perfect response to that. But I was talking about when the Doctor wanted to send all of them to Pete’s World in “Doomsday.” I wanted Rose to point out that since there were two levers, he literally couldn’t do it alone.

AND THEN HE TOTALLY DID.

YEAH, NO KIDDING.

I actually hate season two more than I did the first time I watched it, and I didn’t think that was possible.

P.S. I forgot how much I loved this entry!

*hugs*

[nostariel]

But I was talking about when the Doctor wanted to send all of them to Pete’s World in “Doomsday.”

*iz confuzzled* I was quoting this: And I still grit my teeth when Rose tells Jackie, “He does it alone, Mum. But not anymore. ’Cause now he’s got me.” I might be the only shipper in the fandom who doesn’t like that scene.

I was talking about when the Doctor wanted to send all of them to Pete’s World in “Doomsday.” I wanted Rose to point out that since there were two levers, he literally couldn’t do it alone.

Aha, yes. That made no damn sense, especially since the TakeCharge!Rose and the "I believe in her!" scene from tIP/tSP. (Srsly, whoever wrote tIP/tSP + Paul Cornell = New Who Dream Team for me. I like to imagine a S2 with those two running the show. It would've been AWESOME.)

I actually hate season two more than I did the first time I watched it, and I didn’t think that was possible.There are individual scenes and moments that I like. IP/SP are highlights for me, and some of my favorite eps of all of New Who. But I have trouble

[mls03j]

There are individual scenes and moments that I like.

Ditto. But I don’t think there’s a single complete episode that I like. Not anymore. When I got to “The Impossible Planet” in The Great Doctor Who Rewatch, I was struck by how… OOC Rose seemed. (I can’t put my finger on why-her outrage when she realized the Ood were slaves was very Rose.) But she didn’t start feeling like my Rose till she and the Doctor were separated in “The Satan Pit.” (And her “I’m gonna wait for the Doctor” speech ruined that episode for me.)

(I wrote an entry about the things I liked in season two, and another about the things I’d change, if you’re curious. Of course, I wrote both of them between “Turn Left” and “The Stolen Earth,” so they’re a little out-of-date.)

And I found this old review of Doomsday last night that made me cry all over again.

*sigh* That might be the perfect summary of season two. Rose isn’t the heroine-she's just a girl. And this is the story of the Doctor.

That’s not my Doctor Who.