Dean Winchester - hero or loser?
More commentray on the commentary - Kripke on WIAWSNB
Firstly a self-indulgent squee at having the Blue Velvet ref in the episode confirmed as deliberate. I love the visual referencing of other movies and …oops thats a whole other meta.
Before I dive into the heavy stuff, some props to Kripke, who keeps calling himself an insensitive bastard, but he gives generous compliments to everyone involved in this episode. He deserves big props for his directing here, and in the performances he got. And just to pop the tinhat on for a moment - its interesting to hear how thrown Jensen and Jared were but the disruption to their on-screen relationship.
I also love that Kripke resisted the network execs plea for a sex scene between Dean and Carmen - “It’s not like she’s going be late for her job so she can bang her boyfriend you know…I just couldn’t justify it. That’s a bad nurse.” Is Kripke going all Whedonesque feminist on us? I appreciate the sentiment Eric, but I tell you if I had to choose between banging Dean Winchester and my job - I’d be well-fucked and unemployed!
Kripke says of Dean “if he didn’t have hunting for the most part he’d be a drifter and a loser. I mean he’d be in bar brawls, he’d be fighting. Hunting in a way gives him a structure and a purpose that he would never have in any other situation.”
So the question is - do you think without hunting Dean would be a loser? Or do you think his heroic tendencies are inanate, and would’ve exhibited in other ways - like him being a fireman maybe?
And is it more than hunting that makes him a hero? Is it the relationship with Sam that allows him to be something more, or to realize that potential in himself? Is it the lack of that bond that leaves him lost?
Kripke’s idea of Dean is somewhat a romantic one - that there is one path for him, one thing that will complete him and make him a hero. In some ways “hunting” is like his soulmate.
Of course, as Kripke points out during the graveside scene (Shut up man, I’ve got something in my eye!), Dean is a tragic hero. The tragedy is that hunting gives him the opportunity to be a hero, and it gives him a bond with Sam and John but hunting is also responsible for taking those he loves from him, and leading him to make tragic decisions such as selling his soul.
Personally, I can believe that hunting is a vocation for Dean. It is the one thing that will bring out the best in him, and satisfy him in ways nothing else will. But without it, would he lead the existence we see in WIAWSNB, which is just sort of mundane and unfulfilled or would be totally hopeless?
I think the role of holding his family together has also been vital to him. Where would his palce be in a happy, safe Winchester family?
I can buy Kripke’s characterizing of Dean as a ‘character in a Bukowski novel’ because I suspect left unsatisfied and without a purpose, Dean’s desires could become self-destructive and like a Bukowski’s character he could overindulge in everything - booze, sex, gambling. Of course it also raises the question as to whether Dean’s lack of self-worth is also innate.
I think Dean needs a greater purpose - be that looking after his family, and/or hunting. Both these things would be denied him if the demon never entered the Winchesters’ lives.
My personal fanon has always been that Dean is more capable, more valuing of himself, more emotionally resilient than he is often portrayed in many fics. But I am also drawn to the romantic tragedy of him as lost without hunting, and probably more importantly, without his Sammy.(and i haven't touched on what Sam's life might be like without hunting)
So - what do you think. Hero or lsoer? or just a regular, ridiculously good-looking guy?
In conclusion: Deeeeen!
thanks to stir_of_echoes for her transcript of the commentary.
Firstly a self-indulgent squee at having the Blue Velvet ref in the episode confirmed as deliberate. I love the visual referencing of other movies and …oops thats a whole other meta.
Before I dive into the heavy stuff, some props to Kripke, who keeps calling himself an insensitive bastard, but he gives generous compliments to everyone involved in this episode. He deserves big props for his directing here, and in the performances he got. And just to pop the tinhat on for a moment - its interesting to hear how thrown Jensen and Jared were but the disruption to their on-screen relationship.
I also love that Kripke resisted the network execs plea for a sex scene between Dean and Carmen - “It’s not like she’s going be late for her job so she can bang her boyfriend you know…I just couldn’t justify it. That’s a bad nurse.” Is Kripke going all Whedonesque feminist on us? I appreciate the sentiment Eric, but I tell you if I had to choose between banging Dean Winchester and my job - I’d be well-fucked and unemployed!
Kripke says of Dean “if he didn’t have hunting for the most part he’d be a drifter and a loser. I mean he’d be in bar brawls, he’d be fighting. Hunting in a way gives him a structure and a purpose that he would never have in any other situation.”
So the question is - do you think without hunting Dean would be a loser? Or do you think his heroic tendencies are inanate, and would’ve exhibited in other ways - like him being a fireman maybe?
And is it more than hunting that makes him a hero? Is it the relationship with Sam that allows him to be something more, or to realize that potential in himself? Is it the lack of that bond that leaves him lost?
Kripke’s idea of Dean is somewhat a romantic one - that there is one path for him, one thing that will complete him and make him a hero. In some ways “hunting” is like his soulmate.
Of course, as Kripke points out during the graveside scene (Shut up man, I’ve got something in my eye!), Dean is a tragic hero. The tragedy is that hunting gives him the opportunity to be a hero, and it gives him a bond with Sam and John but hunting is also responsible for taking those he loves from him, and leading him to make tragic decisions such as selling his soul.
Personally, I can believe that hunting is a vocation for Dean. It is the one thing that will bring out the best in him, and satisfy him in ways nothing else will. But without it, would he lead the existence we see in WIAWSNB, which is just sort of mundane and unfulfilled or would be totally hopeless?
I think the role of holding his family together has also been vital to him. Where would his palce be in a happy, safe Winchester family?
I can buy Kripke’s characterizing of Dean as a ‘character in a Bukowski novel’ because I suspect left unsatisfied and without a purpose, Dean’s desires could become self-destructive and like a Bukowski’s character he could overindulge in everything - booze, sex, gambling. Of course it also raises the question as to whether Dean’s lack of self-worth is also innate.
I think Dean needs a greater purpose - be that looking after his family, and/or hunting. Both these things would be denied him if the demon never entered the Winchesters’ lives.
My personal fanon has always been that Dean is more capable, more valuing of himself, more emotionally resilient than he is often portrayed in many fics. But I am also drawn to the romantic tragedy of him as lost without hunting, and probably more importantly, without his Sammy.(and i haven't touched on what Sam's life might be like without hunting)
So - what do you think. Hero or lsoer? or just a regular, ridiculously good-looking guy?
In conclusion: Deeeeen!
thanks to stir_of_echoes for her transcript of the commentary.