Maybe I'm paranoid?

[mamadeb]

Was there a reason that the sign-ups for Yuletide were announced on a Jewish holiday?

Seriously - it was hree days ago. If someone on my flist hadn't said something this morning, I'd never have known. Add to that the fact that nominations were done during the week of Yom Kippur and Sukkot, so I had NO time to do it.

A girl could get a complex.

Comments

[merryish]

Maybe you're paranoid? You imply, publicly, that there's an anti-semitic conspiracy behind the timing of Yuletide activities and maybe you're paranoid?

I get that you're frustrated, and I'm sorry that the timing has been bad for you, but I find this post incredibly offensive. There's enough legitimate, hurtful prejudice in the world without pointing fingers in the complete absence of evidence.

You could have pointed out your concerns to the people running Yuletide, you could have asked them your "question", but I suppose that is far less dramatic than a public post that implies they are intentionally excluding Jews from the sign-up process. Never mind that sign-ups will be open for two weeks, specifically to ensure that everyone who wants to has a chance to participate. Never mind that this year, just like last year, there will be multiple clarification posts and reminder posts going straight up through close of sign-ups to make sure that everybody is kept informed.

No, forget all that - clearly the right thing to do is

[mamadeb]

That's your choice

[kita0610]

Or maybe you could have expected civility instead of rampant defensiveness. But you know. That would have been way naive.

This is the same thing that happened last year, to someone else, in similar circumstances.

In fact, it happens pretty consistently when someone not a member of the majority expresses discomfort.

Sorry it hit you this time, but hey. I got your back. Thanks for the post.

[mamadeb]

Hey, I know I shouldn't have posted in anger. Normally, I delete those pretty much right after I post. No real excuses for not, except I thought people would understand.

Thank you, though.

[mamadeb]

You and me both. :)

HUGS

[amireal]

I'm sorry merry, but I have to disagree with you, I don't think that deb was implying a semitic conspiracy or even prejudice to the degree you're talking about. I think at most deb is implying a lack of concern and awareness and possibly knowledge and experience all around. If you're not an observant Jew it's hard to know what those weeks are like You come out behind and exhausted and running to catch up on the million things you missed.

And honestly it's pretty easy to miss a "we are open!" post or even a "we are going to be open!" post prior to and during the weeks of the holidays. It's not a small period here, it's four long weeks or so.

[merryish]

If I could think of a *reason* -- which is what she asked for, a *reason* -- for the yuletide admins to deliberately arrange for signups to open on a Jewish holiday, that did not involve purposely excluding observant Jews? Maybe then I could say, okay, fair enough, a misunderstanding. As it stands, it's a blatant suggestion that the date was deliberately chosen because it's a Jewish holiday. And there's only one reason I can think of that anyone would do something like that

[amireal]

Deb said: Was there a reason that the sign-ups for Yuletide were announced on a Jewish holiday?

I think we're reading reason the in different ways.

You said: for the yuletide admins to deliberately arrange for signups to open on a Jewish holiday,

I don't think either of us mean deliberate actions at all. I see the reason as easily being "Simply not having thought to check". To me that's as good a reason as any for the signups to end up on a jewish holiday. No one thought to check.

To me, Deb's post made it sound like two people who are very busy with this big thing forgot. And that's a perfectly valid reason, if wearying one after a while. There's a difference between carelessness and purposeful offense and Deb does describe (in one of her comments)dealing with a history of carelessness in fandom.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, because that is rude at its very best and offensive at its worst.And some people might think it's rude not to check the calendar more carefully or try and make alternate arrangements. Or

[merryish]

Leaving out different interpretations of Deb's post, which I don't think we're going to change each other's minds about, what exactly are the Yuletide maintainers supposed to change?

Wikipedia and Google tell me there are no Jewish holidays between October 5 and December 5 this year.

Signups began on October 5, and will run for two weeks during which there don't seem to be any conflicting holidays.

Frequent reminders and updates about sign-ups will be posted throughout those two weeks, just in case anybody missed the opening announcement.

In what way have they been careless or insensitive or rude? How will this time-frame negatively impact anyone? There is absolutely no gain in signing up for Yuletide on the first day, or even the day after. Or at any point before sign-ups close.

So where's the carelessness and rudeness?

[amireal]

On they surface yeah, it seems like nothing but a minor inconvenience, but years of minor inconvenience can certainly add up. I can also see how it might seem odd that someone might seriously start to feel like they're getting a complex. It's really more like the straw that broke the camel's back. I can see a bit of overreaction, but contextually it makes sense. Deb complained about how it made her feel more than anything else. Someone made a decision that made her (and probably others) feel left out. Again. Justified? Reasonable? Well. It's hard to tell

[merryish]

On they surface yeah, it seems like nothing but a minor inconvenience

It doesn't seem like a minor inconvenience, though. It doesn't seem like any inconvenience at all. It isn't any inconvenience. There are fourteen days in which to sign up, and on one of them, if you're an observant Jew, you can't. That leaves thirteen days.

I'm sorry, I just don't get it. I can understand if it were somehow actually preventing observant Jews from signing up, or if it were somehow "cool" to sign up on the first day, but people have been posting about signing up every day since it started. I didn't sign up till Sunday. Fifty new people sign up every day.

Nobody has been disenfranchised. Certainly not intentionally, and as far as I can see not even unintentionally. No one - NO one - has been prevented from signing up. That's the bottom line. Stipulating that the maintainers have a responsibility to be sensitive to the needs of people of faith, they have fulfilled that responsibility by making sign-ups a two-week window with many, many,

[mamadeb]

Merryish, you want to be tolerant of other religions. Doesn't that start with educating yourself about the other religions

[merryish]

You only care that I expressed anger and frustration that something that could have been truly announced in advance or moved *two days* was not.

No, I care that your anger and frustration were expressed via implying that two people I know and care about chose the date for sign-ups to start because it's a Jewish holiday. I hear you saying that wasn't your intention, but that's how it came across.

They are not minor things - a big dinner and maybe gifts.Wow. I'm just gonna pass that right on by

[jonbaker]

I'm sorry, I just don't see that in MamaDeb's post. She asked "is there a reason" that the signup announcement coincided with the Jewish holidays". She did not actually accuse, explicitly or implicitly, that anyone deliberately scheduled these things to conflict with the Jewish holidays. She simply expressed frustration that they DID conflict

[mamadeb]

I was taken by surprise when the Nominatons period ended, since I never could find a big enough block during that week to make them, but that was not it. (I wouldn't have minded an acknowledgment that this is a busy time of year for some people, but that's when they believed was best to schedule it, but that's about it.)

No, it really was that I'd found out about this important item because someone happened to mention it.

And I think I know why I was bothered. It's because one of my holidays, one of the most joyous times of the year, was not only treated as trivial and ignorable, but also done so in service to a holiday not in my religion.