They're both being lied to, and it's fucking them up. My rage is all focused on Ruby and Castiel at this point, though i know Castiel is as much a puppet as Dean is, at this point. So, say at Heaven. It's....infuriating.
I hate that not!Mom Winchester was so blatantly not!Mom but Sam can't see that, because he's so terrified and riddled with guilt and loathing that he's grasping at straws.
I hate that Dean essentially signed himself over to a Heaven that doesn't give a fuck for him so he could, once more, save the people he thinks matter more than he does.
Gods, it's fucked, it's gonna *hurt*, and I can't wait.
Boy, I really struggle with this. If this is the battle of good versus evil, shouldn't it really be a little less gray? I won't be happy if all the angels are evil. Who intervened with Castiel, was it one of the bad angels? They had pretty much infiltrated his regiment last we heard. As far as Sam using an evil tool for good, isn't that an end justifies the means rationale? Maybe we can't see the problems with his drinking Dean blood, but we all know in our guts that it is wrong. Even Sam knew. I am guessing that his drinking blood is supposed to be equivalent to his using the dark side of the force (since Kripke loves his star wars references). It is faster and quicker and more seductive than doing it the right way. But once you venture too far down that path..... Is Bobby Yoda?
Everything is grey, really. Think of the horrors that angels caused, at 'gods' request. Death and destruction, causing so much pain.... And demons are supposedly, in the Bible, fallen angels who simply exercised free will. So they, too, have the Grace - it's simply become twisted.
Grey, grey, so fucking grey and man, the finale is going to *kill me dead*. Jayzus.
Good point about the fallen angels, although only some of them were angels. And they have done such evil. They not only exercised free will, they then chose evil. And earlier, when Castiel had tested Dean, they had let Dean, a mortal. make the decision about the town being destroyed or not. So how do we know that those things had really been at God's request? Of course the whole flood thing seemed really over the top. I guess gray it is. I hate gray.
(This comment is only marginally related to this post, BTW)
DUDE, KRIPKE TOTALLY GAVE YOU A SHOUTOUT TONIGHT, NO ONE CAN DISSUADE ME OF THIS. ONE OF THE BROKEN SEALS BEING A 15-MAN ALASKAN FISHING CREW GETTING BLINDED? METHINKS SOMEONE HAS SEEN LAND'S END.^___~
The fact that Sam actively tried to kill Dean and picked his demon girlfriend over his brother, drew the line for me.
I honestly don't know how they are going to redeem Sam for me. Or make right the brother relationship. Dean is back from Hell and back from the dead, the lowest of the low, and yet this season all I have felt from Sam is kind of an obligatory relationship towards Dean where in Sam acts like Dean is the albatross around his neck.
I'm just...I don't know how they can redeem Sam for me. They just took him too far. When Dean told him that if Sam walked out that door not to come back, I cheered. The only sad part about tonight's ep to me was seeing how one sided this relationship between the brothers truly is, and knowing that Dean will eventually take Sam back and we will start this horrible, dysfunctional cycle all over again.
I agree. I can see Sam's rational in everything else - being practical, etc. And I can see all the grey area. But I really could not forgive him for trying to kill Dean actively, and while he was relatively sane.
Though the if you walk out of that door don't come back line from Dean was meant to draw a parallel between Stanford and now, I see it MUCH differently. Sam in Stanford I can support, he wants to do his own thing, live his own life, I can agree with him for that. But this time I can't help but think it's Sam who is walking out on Dean.
I tried not to see it during the season, but the active attempt at killing Dean, and not even looking SURPRISED at himself after he let go, really drew the line for me.
Yes, this! I just don't see how he will be able to redeem himself from attempt of murdering. I don't care about what he was saying, i'm being practical and count only acts - Sam chose Ruby over Dean and Sam was trying to kill Dean for saying the truth. For it's the line and he crossed it and didn't even look back. Goodbye, Sam. Don't come back.
Yeah, that's where I'm at too. Even though I didn't agree with Sam's choices, I was still able to feel sorry for him up to that point. But once Sam deliberately tried to kill Dean, spoke to his fallen brother with such hatred, and then left with Ruby, that was it.
I'll be honest I didn't really see Dean as wrong in any major way in this episode. I think he was the ONLY one thinking close to clearly, especially given the emotional hell he was going through
( ... )
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I hate that not!Mom Winchester was so blatantly not!Mom but Sam can't see that, because he's so terrified and riddled with guilt and loathing that he's grasping at straws.
I hate that Dean essentially signed himself over to a Heaven that doesn't give a fuck for him so he could, once more, save the people he thinks matter more than he does.
Gods, it's fucked, it's gonna *hurt*, and I can't wait.
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Bobby is SO Yoda. O.M.G.
*dies*
Everything is grey, really. Think of the horrors that angels caused, at 'gods' request. Death and destruction, causing so much pain.... And demons are supposedly, in the Bible, fallen angels who simply exercised free will. So they, too, have the Grace - it's simply become twisted.
Grey, grey, so fucking grey and man, the finale is going to *kill me dead*. Jayzus.
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DUDE, KRIPKE TOTALLY GAVE YOU A SHOUTOUT TONIGHT, NO ONE CAN DISSUADE ME OF THIS. ONE OF THE BROKEN SEALS BEING A 15-MAN ALASKAN FISHING CREW GETTING BLINDED? METHINKS SOMEONE HAS SEEN LAND'S END.^___~
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I honestly don't know how they are going to redeem Sam for me. Or make right the brother relationship. Dean is back from Hell and back from the dead, the lowest of the low, and yet this season all I have felt from Sam is kind of an obligatory relationship towards Dean where in Sam acts like Dean is the albatross around his neck.
I'm just...I don't know how they can redeem Sam for me. They just took him too far. When Dean told him that if Sam walked out that door not to come back, I cheered. The only sad part about tonight's ep to me was seeing how one sided this relationship between the brothers truly is, and knowing that Dean will eventually take Sam back and we will start this horrible, dysfunctional cycle all over again.
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Though the if you walk out of that door don't come back line from Dean was meant to draw a parallel between Stanford and now, I see it MUCH differently. Sam in Stanford I can support, he wants to do his own thing, live his own life, I can agree with him for that. But this time I can't help but think it's Sam who is walking out on Dean.
I tried not to see it during the season, but the active attempt at killing Dean, and not even looking SURPRISED at himself after he let go, really drew the line for me.
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