Oh, I think it is definitely used as a tool. There are a lot of things that make me uneasy about Jewish culture (outside of the religion), the biggest being the fact that it's largely based on victimization and privilege as a result of that victimization, which is manipulative and, quite frankly, racist -- there's this idea that your membership in a particular race/religion alone entitles you to something -- and also kind of irrelevant at this point. How long are we going to operate on the assumption that Jews are endangered as a result of the Holocaust? And what effect does that assumption have on Jewish people, and non-Jewish people? Is it really a helpful or right assumption anymore?
Because to be honest, I think the the Holocaust, or the ideas of the Holocaust, affect gays, women, and the mentally ill far more than they affect Jews right now. Those groups are still fighting for full citizenship, for the right to be protected, to make decisions about their own bodies, to make decisions about their own lives -- are those
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Oh, I think it is definitely used as a tool. There are a lot of things that make me uneasy about Jewish culture (outside of the religion), the biggest being the fact that it's largely based on victimization and privilege as a result of that victimizationUm, whoa
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Thank you for coming to this post an commenting; it means a lot to me to see other people doing this.
I also want to say from the outset that no one owns history: it is our common property as human beings, and as such we bear responsibilities to it, chief among which is not to tell lies about it
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I think this is one specific point where criticism of Israeli politics slides into anti-semitism.
Yes. And on one hand, I wince at the idea (which I have seen crop up sometimes) that any criticism of the actions of the Israeli government is de facto anti-Semitic. Especially when some of those criticisms are coming from Israelis and other Jews.
But is some criticism of Israel deeply, deeply anti-Semitic? Hell yeah (and I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear that I think that).
And I wanted to thank you for being willing to speak out here.
No thanks required; I'm partly Jewish, so this hits me on a fairly personal level.
One sometimes gets the sense that people are jealous of what happened, and I do not understand this at all. Some people *are* jealous, and I will take a stab at explaining it. It's kind of like the appeal of Buffy The Vampire Slayer (bear with me, here): the circumstances of Buffy's life perfectly justify the kinds of oversized emotions that *all* teenagers feel. No one can call Buffy emo -- she slept with her boyfriend once, and he lost his soul and tried to kill her
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There are a lot of things that make me uneasy about Jewish culture (outside of the religion), the biggest being the fact that it's largely based on victimization and privilege as a result of that victimization, which is manipulative and, quite frankly, racist -- there's this idea that your membership in a particular race/religion alone entitles you to something -- and also kind of irrelevant at this point.
Wow. In one fell swoop, you claim that
1) the linchpin of Jewish culture is victimization and privelege
2) Which is used for gain and sympathy
3) so Jewish culture is based on racism, greed, and entitlement.
I believe that one of the major definitions of prejudice is attributing negative characteristics to an entire group, and on that basis, that is the most blatantly prejudiced single statement I've read all week. And believe me, it had competetition.
Also, it's pretty low to say, "Come on! Get over that genocide already!"
Hi, I'm a Jew and I know lots of Jews. I don't know a single one who opposes interfaith or interracial marriages. In fact, I know Jews who are in them right now
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In fact, in my anecdotal experience, the people most likely to be able to tell you who other than the Jews were killed in the Holocaust are... Jews.
I'll echo this with my own anecdotal experience as a queer Jewish chick. A while back, I was having one of those long, heartfelt conversation with a non-Jewish queer male friend and it happened to be that we began discussing the Holocaust. He immediately fell into sympathy, saying how awful it was that six million people were killed, etc. I had to correct him: "Eleven million people were killed, it's just that only six million were Jews. You would have been rounded up too."
Nobody Jewish I know says "Never forget the Jews." It's simply "Never forget."
"Do you understand [...] why I just think it's harmful to everbody[sic] for one group to lean so heavily on one part of history?"
I just can't accept that you've thought seriously about this topic with a statement like that. Until people are referred to as PEOPLE (not Jew, not Black, not White, not Muslim, not Gay, not Blind, not Asian, not Handicapped...) but people are seen and, more importantly, treated as just a person, and not some identifiable characteristic to make it easier for people to pigeon hole them, THEY HAVE TO RELY ON a certain part of history.
Because people forget.
Because racist/prejudiced assholes still teach their children discrimination and hate.
Because people still refer to a race/religion in a broad generalization with a crazy amount of racist/prejudiced thinking, and still think they're being "open-minded" and "fair."
Sometimes you should just read posts and scroll past. Or run your comments past someone before posting.
Because to be honest, I think the the Holocaust, or the ideas of the Holocaust, affect gays, women, and the mentally ill far more than they affect Jews right now. Those groups are still fighting for full citizenship, for the right to be protected, to make decisions about their own bodies, to make decisions about their own lives -- are those ( ... )
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I also want to say from the outset that no one owns history: it is our common property as human beings, and as such we bear responsibilities to it, chief among which is not to tell lies about it ( ... )
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Yes. And on one hand, I wince at the idea (which I have seen crop up sometimes) that any criticism of the actions of the Israeli government is de facto anti-Semitic. Especially when some of those criticisms are coming from Israelis and other Jews.
But is some criticism of Israel deeply, deeply anti-Semitic? Hell yeah (and I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear that I think that).
And I wanted to thank you for being willing to speak out here.
No thanks required; I'm partly Jewish, so this hits me on a fairly personal level.
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And now I feel completely embarrassed, and hope you didn't feel I was lecturing you at any point in my comment.
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But no, I don't get any credit for being an ally on this one *g*.
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This is what happens when I try to reply to things before I've had enough caffeine.
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Heh -- I thought about putting that in my comment, too. (The best of pop culture can be relevant in the most unexpected discussions....)
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There are a lot of things that make me uneasy about Jewish culture (outside of the religion), the biggest being the fact that it's largely based on victimization and privilege as a result of that victimization, which is manipulative and, quite frankly, racist -- there's this idea that your membership in a particular race/religion alone entitles you to something -- and also kind of irrelevant at this point.
Wow. In one fell swoop, you claim that
1) the linchpin of Jewish culture is victimization and privelege
2) Which is used for gain and sympathy
3) so Jewish culture is based on racism, greed, and entitlement.
I believe that one of the major definitions of prejudice is attributing negative characteristics to an entire group, and on that basis, that is the most blatantly prejudiced single statement I've read all week. And believe me, it had competetition.
Also, it's pretty low to say, "Come on! Get over that genocide already!"
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Just, wow.
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I'll echo this with my own anecdotal experience as a queer Jewish chick. A while back, I was having one of those long, heartfelt conversation with a non-Jewish queer male friend and it happened to be that we began discussing the Holocaust. He immediately fell into sympathy, saying how awful it was that six million people were killed, etc. I had to correct him: "Eleven million people were killed, it's just that only six million were Jews. You would have been rounded up too."
Nobody Jewish I know says "Never forget the Jews." It's simply "Never forget."
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I just can't accept that you've thought seriously about this topic with a statement like that. Until people are referred to as PEOPLE (not Jew, not Black, not White, not Muslim, not Gay, not Blind, not Asian, not Handicapped...) but people are seen and, more importantly, treated as just a person, and not some identifiable characteristic to make it easier for people to pigeon hole them, THEY HAVE TO RELY ON a certain part of history.
Because people forget.
Because racist/prejudiced assholes still teach their children discrimination and hate.
Because people still refer to a race/religion in a broad generalization with a crazy amount of racist/prejudiced thinking, and still think they're being "open-minded" and "fair."
Sometimes you should just read posts and scroll past. Or run your comments past someone before posting.
Wow.
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