The sparkly, the Nicky, exercising critical faculties, long time no see, evil friends

[flambeau]

I got Now or Never in the mail today - the limited edition with the bonus DVD, that is, because it was on sale for practically nothing and I'm cheaper than JC frugal at times. Also the 4-track version of Help Me, which was on sale for even less. Then when I went browsing local record stores this afternoon I found the BSB All Access DVD for, you

Comments

[cjmarlowe]

My sekrit dream is to have a community like Prospect-L for some fandom I'm actually involved in. I like to imagine it, though - a forum where you can discuss stories the same way you talk about them with your friends in chat.

See, I would love this for popslash, but how would it even work? A locked LJ community? (Making it more like a mailing list in that people can't see what's posted unless they're members, so if they don't want to hear it, they just don't join.) Is there even a critical mass of people willing to participate that would make it work and not let it just fizzle out? It's been tried at least once, that I know of, but participation wasn't high enough to get it going. (Plus it was a mailing list, in a fandom that is very much LJ-based). It would be interesting to try it again now.

I can already imagine the kerfuffle... =)

[flambeau]

Yeah, I get bogged down in practicalities, too - and my usual penchant for saying hey, wouldn't it be neat if and hope someone else will actually do it. And I think you're right that it's hard to achieve takeoff velocity with this kind of thing, especially as people can often feel the expectations of serious worthwhileness weighing them down when they get involved in anything that calls itself crit.

I'm yes-and-no about mailing list vs livejournal for a thing like this. It's useful to get the latest comments without having to hang around and click refresh all time time, but at the same time lj has a pleasant messageboardish quality to it when you want to catch up on what's gone before.

[ramblinround]

I am very jealous of all your Nicky/BSB goodies. I wish I could invite myself over to watch with you, yes I do. Plus, I bet it's at least a little cooler in Stockholm than it is here.

Did I ever send you the Pop Muzik mix? I think I've even asked you this question before, and forgotten your answer. I would make a crack here about how I'm getting old and my memory is going, except that it might be construed as an insult to anyone else who shares my birthday. But anyway, someday (soon, I hope) there will be a Pop Muzik 2 mix, and I need to know whether to send just the second one, or both of them.

[flambeau]

It is cooler, yeah, and also I have AC, without which I would be a sad wet little puddle. I'll be moving in September, I hope, and after that you can come and visit in the new apartment of much (more) space! Nick was really adorable, though the DVD extras were little more than fluff.

Yes, you sent me the PM mix, and I just went trawling through my outbox to check that I'd actually written you and said thank you, and I can't find any such letter, but I have a clear memory of saying thank you... so either my memory or my mail program has gone wonky. In either case, it's right here ::points:: and because I wasn't raised by wolves, honestly, I'll say thank you again: thank you very much! ::mwah::

[musesfool]

My sekrit dream is to have a community like Prospect-L for some fandom I'm actually involved in.

I am hoping that zarah5's constructive criticism project or whatever she's calling it, which will be public and multi-fannish (though seemingly, from my quick skimming of the participants, heavily weighted toward RPF of the Lotrips variety) will start a trend, and that people will voluntarily offer themselves up (65 of us did in this little shindig), until it becomes more common and less shocking to see good, non-agenda-driven critique in public.

I mean, it's always a shock and a sting to me, as a writer, when someone critiques a story of mine and says something negative or not-entirely-positive (though I usually get over it within a couple days), but I think actually seeing a bunch of critiques offered in good faith and in public, will go a ways toward easing some fans into the idea, especially those who haven't really had a chance to experience critique as something other than vitriol-laden shredding of fic by people with axes to grind.

[flambeau]

Thanks for the link - this sounds like an interesting project, and I'm kind of hoping there's a round two at some point so I can sign up. Though it seems more serious and geared towards useful-for-the-writer than the kind of "See, here's what I thought, what did you think?" idle conversation I dream of. :)

[manna]

My sekrit dream is to have a community like Prospect-L for some fandom I'm actually involved in.

I'd join a community like that for popslash. I'd *love* somewhere to have that sort of discussion. Hell, I'd even be willing to help referee it, as either an LJ or a proper mailing list. I think it could work.

[flambeau]

Ooh, ambition. I like that in a fan. ;) I just keep thinking of all the fun story convo that goes on at a con, and how neat it would be to be able to have that online, as well.

[cesperanza]

The opinions expressed in this hypothetical exchange do not necessarily reflect those of the author. (Hi, Ces!)

Hi, torch!! *g*

Actually, you know, I think the funniest thing about this whole discussion for me was that there was a very smart person, don't remember who at the moment, who commented somewhere about how she wasn't even allowed to critique her own stories, like if she said how her story X was better than her story Y, or how she didn't really manage to accomplish C or D, people would argue with her. And Destina (Hi, Des!! *g*) had at one point been very pissed off at me because I told her that I didn't think "A Dare's A Dare" was as good as some of my other work. So apparently (yanking Miz Destina's chain, yank yank yank) you can critique stories only if they're not your own. *g

[destina]

And Destina (Hi, Des!! *g*) had at one point been very pissed off at me because I told her that I didn't think "A Dare's A Dare" was as good as some of my other work. So apparently (yanking Miz Destina's chain, yank yank yank) you can critique stories only if they're not your own. *g*Now you knew I couldn't resist this. Didn't you? *g* I was a wee bit annoyed, 'tis true, but not for the reasons you apparently think. It was because when I write 'feelin' the love' feedback to someone - which is rare - and then get a response basically telling me my taste in stories sucks (i.e., this is a bunt and not a home run, and so here's why really, I don't get why you liked it, and these stories over here are better)...well. It tends to be a bit off-putting

[cesperanza]

when I write 'feelin' the love' feedback to someone - which is rare - and then get a response basically telling me my taste in stories sucks (i.e., this is a bunt and not a home run, and so here's why really, I don't get why you liked it, and these stories over here are better)...well. It tends to be a bit off-putting.

Why not just argue with me about it? I mean, I have a whole system for categorizing my stories but who says I'm right? I mean, just cause I wrote these stories doesn't mean I'm any better a critic of them than I am of any other set of stories, you know? If I said I thought Kat Allison's Roots Rain was better than End of The Road for such and such reasons, and you thought the opposite, we could debate that for hours and probably have an interesting convo about literature and its underlying values and such. So why couldn't we debate *my* stories like that, and why isn't that covered by "criticism" as a positive value?

(And I really wish you HAD engaged me on A Dare's A Dare, because I said similar negative things

[destina]

I don't think I get this. It's better to disagree publicly than privately?

Does everything have to be a 'throttle up and engage in debate' topic? I'm pretty selective about what I choose to engage about. My love for a story isn't really a position I see value in defending if the dissenting opinion comes from the writer herself.

Yeah, but-- (boggling, making frustrated and elaborate hand gestures) --isn't the risk of making someone feel like a jerk exactly the risk we've been talking about??? What else has this whole thread been about? A negative review Let's not conflate feedback and critique. Feedback *may* be critique, but not necessarily. Sometimes it's a simple expression of appreciation. Your presumption iseems to be that people want to engage on the level of critical debate when they send feedback. That's not necessarily the case; it seems to be your default position, but it's not the same for everyone. And when you get two different agendas and approaches going on within this kind of reader-writer interaction, you've got a