Comments | fantas_magoria: I Will Remember You (AKA, Angel eats a lot)

shapinglight in fantas_magoria

I Will Remember You (AKA, Angel eats a lot)

Sep 01, 2016 16:44

It's not actually AKA that at all, of course, but since the Angel raiding the fridge scene is one of my favourites in the episode, I just decided to call it that. And Angel does eat an awful lot (you know, for someone who usually only drinks blood).

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a108 i will remember you, rewatch

Comments 20

readerjane September 1 2016, 17:33:53 UTC

I don't think Buffy gave in easily. Didn't Angel tell her that the clock was going to reset about a minute before it happened? She didn't have time to do anything, so why not weep about losing the thing she'd wanted for years, and thought she'd just been given?

I understand the Doylesian reasons for Angel making the call himself, but I will always be ticked at him on the Watsonian level for not consulting Buffy first.

Best Line In Show goes to Cordelia for "They get groiny together, the world as we know it falls apart."

shapinglight September 5 2016, 14:01:44 UTC

I don't think Buffy gave in easily.

It's true Angel doesn't give her much time to react, but it's just something about her demeanour/body language in this instance that bugs me. It feels (possibly because it is) like she's just been waiting for this happen and just accepts it, and I don't think she would.

I agree that on a Watsonian level Angel's actions are pretty horrendous. He couches it to himself that he's doing it to protect Buffy, but you can't help thinking he just doesn't like the idea of not being the hero any more.

rebcake September 1 2016, 17:42:06 UTC

It seems we agree again! I quite like the Oracles, but very much dislike the big "D" destiny thing whenever it comes up. "Amends" is my least favorite BtVS ep, as I've mentioned before, for this reason. Plus histrionic Buffy, as you say.

But everybody is quite cute in the happy center of this. Angel's thing about food is delightful, and understandable. I don't remember Cordelia being mean to Buffy, anymore than usual, but it's entirely possible that she might already be feeling territorial toward Angel.

Although I do find the "whole Angel making-all-the-decisions-because-he's-the-hero thing" irritating, myself. At some point you'd think he'd realize that he's crap at making the hard decisions.

shapinglight September 5 2016, 14:08:49 UTC

I think the 'destiny' thing is a huge millstone around Angel's neck. It turns him into a puppet of the PTBs, who aren't always benevolent, as we see in AtS season 4.

Angel's thing about food is delightful, and understandable.

Yes, it's very endearing.

I don't remember Cordelia being mean to Buffy, anymore than usual, but it's entirely possible that she might already be feeling territorial toward Angel.

Well, Doyle actually suggests that Cordy is jealous, which she denies (and surely Cordy/Angel wasn't an idea anyone had back then, was it?), but to me she just comes across as more grumpy and spiteful because Angel turning human means she's out of a job (which is no small thing, I suppose).

Although I do find the "whole Angel making-all-the-decisions-because-he's-the-hero thing" irritating, myself. At some point you'd think he'd realize that he's crap at making the hard decisions.Indeed. But I think the idea he keeps being given that he has this 'destiny' feeds into that. It's bound to. If the PTBs think you're so important, it's ( ... )

infinitewhale September 1 2016, 18:45:46 UTC

I know she got like this about Angel in Amends too,

Amends is the actual pilot Angel, to be sure ( ... )

shapinglight September 5 2016, 14:17:49 UTC

That's why I'm never a fan of crossovers. When she's on there, Buffy only acts and is characterized by Angel's story. Same with Angel on Buffy.

I agree, and I don't like crossovers either. Angel appearing in Pangs worked a lot better for him than Buffy appearing in this episode, though.

Buffy knowing Angel chose otherwise is a very big thing, if you ask me. Her knowing that it was Angel and not the PtB or some curse keeping them apart would have been emotionally freeing.

Again, I agree. So that very much suggests that no, they didn't want Buffy and Angel over forever, or at the very least they wanted to keep their options open (which possibly made sense when they didn't know whether or not AtS would last more than a season.

It always bothered me it was never picked on that Angel did all this to save her and she died anyway. Of course they retcon it that Jasmine was just pulling his strings, so I guess it was all BS.I'd forgotten that. Yeah, you'd think that early AtS season 3 would have been a good point for Angel not only to ( ... )

infinitewhale September 5 2016, 22:18:11 UTC

Again, I agree. So that very much suggests that no, they didn't want Buffy and Angel over forever, or at the very least they wanted to keep their options open (which possibly made sense when they didn't know whether or not AtS would last more than a season.

Yeah, but they always go back to Bangel. See The Yoko Factor. Or Chosen. That's why I never give Bangels too much crap about not giving up on their ship. Why should they when Joss panders to them all the time?

Also if I ever have a chance to talk to one of the writers I want to ask why Buffy is too immature to make decisions at the end of S3, yet it's perfectly fine to make them just 5 months later. That's always bugged me.

shapinglight September 6 2016, 14:31:43 UTC

Also if I ever have a chance to talk to one of the writers I want to ask why Buffy is too immature to make decisions at the end of S3, yet it's perfectly fine to make them just 5 months later. That's always bugged me.

They'll probably just say that it was for story-telling reasons - ie. because they needed to get Angel off BtVS and on to his own show.

That's why I never give Bangels too much crap about not giving up on their ship. Why should they when Joss panders to them all the time?

This is true, though some of them don't half feel entitled. One of the people who trolled Gage on Twitter after season 10 ended was angry about the fact that 'this wasn't what we were promised.'

Thread 5

trepkos September 1 2016, 23:01:15 UTC

The Destiny thing is irritating. And even though I don't ship them, the bit where the clock goes back still brings a tear to my eye every time.

shapinglight September 5 2016, 14:19:37 UTC

I'm afraid it's a long time since this episode made me cry. Maybe the first time I saw it?

I like my romance a little less romantic (which Joss managed perfectly with B/A in season 2).

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shapinglight September 5 2016, 14:27:31 UTC

I wasn't planning on being negative about Angel (again) but for god's sake, he makes the worst decisions. And it's even more irritating because he acts like he has to do the wrong thing for the good of everyone else. When actually the opposite is true. He should take a lesson from that Seinfeld episode where George starts doing the exact opposite of his instincts - and wins.

I've never seen Seinfeld so I couldn't comment on that, but I completely agree that on a Watsonian level, Angel makes some truly awful (and very egocentric) decisions. He doesn't mean to be selfish, I don't think. He doesn't think he is being selfish. But he is. And deluded. That's why I think all this 'you have a destiny' stuff is so bad for him.

He goes off to fight the demon after turning human which was STUPID, and would been a horrible outcome for Buffy if he had died.Yes, that is absolutely indefensible. And yes also, if he was determined to go back to being a vampire, he should never have told Buffy what was about to happen. It would have spared her ( ... )