Beautiful...and correct from beginning to end. something I've always found funny in the fight about every episode we see: sometimes, people miss the point. Go ask a seven year old (or several) and then you will find the spark, the hope...the fear defeated that makes companions of us all
( ... )
Beautiful...and correct from beginning to end. something I've always found funny in the fight about every episode we see: sometimes, people miss the point. Go ask a seven year old (or several) and then you will find the spark, the hope...the fear defeated that makes companions of us all. It's not a bad impulse, but people just take it too far - especially if they are working from abstracts rather than real people and situations.
To me, that's what it means. We all know fear. We all have our own demons and darkness and shadows and skeletons haunting us. This is what unites us all. We all have these things, we all understand them...and we understand that bit in the middle that can be hard to see unless you are looking for it. Hope. THAT is what unites us. Look beyond the fear to what lies ahead“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where
( ... )
She was the monster under the bed, and the quiet, reassuring voice in the darkness. (One Clara, two meanings. Clara is always opposites, simultaneously.)
You may have turned this episode around for me. I need to go back and read more of your metas, but I wanted you to know that yes, you really may have improved this episode for me. So have some of the wonderfully perceptive thoughts of people who have commented. Man, I've needed to drop by here for some time, and I'm glad I finally did.
Oooh his cradle! Yes. Can't believe I forgot that. Not that it was directly relevant, but as a direct physical link to his past - yes. He was a baby once. And I love the way the show grounds people, how no one is static. They were children once. Look at, for example, Dr Simeon from the Snowmen - everything tied back to when he was a little boy and his snowman spoke to him. You can't separate the child from the adult, and that's actually a very important lesson the show is trying to impart - how you treat a child will impact them for life.
Children aren't just valuable because they will turn into grown-ups but because they are thinking, feeling, individual people themselves. Yes, that's excellent! And that, I think, is what the show does over and over again. It takes children seriously. They are people and they are important. Amelia is - arguably - the most important person in Eleven's life.
And also, as you say, you can't separate the child from the adult. If you want to understand an adult, you must understand the child he or she was. (And if you're having trouble sympathizing with an adult, learning about their childhood helps.) *nods a lot* Working in a further education college (mostly 16 - 18 year olds) you can already see it. They are in that inbetween stage.
Clara being the Doctor's teacher is absolutely the best thing about the current season. And if they really go somewhere with monster!Clara I'll be over the moon.
ALKSJF;OIS!! Twice. When Rupert is scared that something's there, what does she say? (from memory):
CLARA: Do you know what's under your bed? RUPERT (uncertain): No? CLARA: Me! (and proceeds to crawl under it)
Clara being the Doctor's teacher is absolutely the best thing about the current season. It really works. And makes me very happy.
And if they really go somewhere with monster!Clara I'll be over the moon. She has been monster'd from the start. (Note icon.) If they don't go somewhere with it, I'll eat my cat. (This is why she'll get her own post.)
Clara being "monster'd" is one of the things fueling my latest crack theory: that Missy is actually a Clara echo gone wrong somehow, a distillation of Clara's bad side. (A Clara Valeyard? Clareyard? Or maybe just "Miss C?") Because Clara is fundamentally a balancing act-controlled yet impulsive, afraid yet bold, sincere yet constantly "on stage," sweet and nurturing yet ruthless when her people are in danger-and it seems to me that if Clara's traits went out of balance then you could get a very scary, messed up maybe-human being.
Well, that and I think that Clara versus Dark Clara Echo would be a hell of a cool thing and I'd like to have it on my TV.
that Missy is actually a Clara echo gone wrong somehow, a distillation of Clara's bad side. (A Clara Valeyard? Clareyard? Or maybe just "Miss C?") Hmmmm. I don't think so, but the mirroring is definitely deliberate. (She looks like an evil Mary Poppins.)
Because Clara is fundamentally a balancing act-controlled yet impulsive, afraid yet bold, sincere yet constantly "on stage," sweet and nurturing yet ruthless when her people are in danger-and it seems to me that if Clara's traits went out of balance then you could get a very scary, messed up maybe-human being. There's definitely something there. Am fliriting with the thought (well, it's an old thought) that Clara's somehow Time Lord-y. I don't see how, but it'd fit. (It Missy is the Master, Clara could be her daughter???)
Well, that and I think that Clara versus Dark Clara Echo would be a hell of a cool thing and I'd like to have it on my TV. Very true.
So grateful to you for picking up that "Fear makes companions of us all" is a line spoken by the First Doctor to Barbara at the very beginning - I would never have thought of that, though I did grasp that placing Clara at Coal Hill School (and setting her up with a fellow teacher) identifies her as the modern Barbara, with all the responsibility for challenging the Doctor which that role implies.
I think Clara's speech acknowledges Midnight, too - and that we're meant to remember that nightmare of an episode when we hear noises that may or may not be someone knocking on the outside of a stranded ship. "Fear doesn't have to make you cruel or cowardly; fear can make you kind." She admits that fear can make people cruel and cowardly, as it did with so many of the passengers on Midnight, but she explains to the not-yet-Doctor how he can use it as a positive force, something that gets you home, something that makes people companions rather than monsters
( ... )
So grateful to you for picking up that "Fear makes companions of us all" is a line spoken by the First Doctor to Barbara at the very beginning - I would never have thought of that It wouldn't have occurred to me either - like I said, it was fortuitous timing. And suddenly things just fell into place. :)
though I did grasp that placing Clara at Coal Hill School (and setting her up with a fellow teacher) identifies her as the modern Barbara, with all the responsibility for challenging the Doctor which that role implies. And we might get Danny too, so we have an Ian also. (And Danny is already set up as a contrast and mirror. I really can't wait for them to meet!)
I think Clara's speech acknowledges Midnight, too - and that we're meant to remember that nightmare of an episode when we hear noises that may or may not be someone knocking on the outside of a stranded ship. As did the scene before, with the actual knocking. And the Doctor being stupidly curious...
"Fear doesn't have to make you cruel or cowardly; fear can make you kind."
( ... )
I suddenly have a vision of one of the alternate Claras being a cavewoman from the Tribe of Gum, who overheard his conversation with Barbara while she was lurking somewhere around the Cave of the Skulls to save the Doctor from a very early death... Subconsciously, original Clara still remembers this (my current assumption is that she doesn't remember very much of the other lives).
I'd forgotten the recent use of "cruel and cowardly". Yes, it makes sense that it ties in with that - but I don't think it rules out the acknowledgement that we have seen the dangerous side of fear in Midnight. Scared may be a superpower, but it's not enough - in a different sense, it failed Scared Bob in The Time of Angels when the Doctor promised fear would keep him alive and it didn't. You still need moral purpose, or luck, or something else, or all of them. Clara's qualifications allow for the bad outcomes too, while steering the child towards the good ones.
I hope Danny isn't too much of a mirror, because that was Rory's job.
I suddenly have a vision of one of the alternate Claras being a cavewoman from the Tribe of Gum ... Well, THAT is an entertaining image! ;)
Subconsciously, original Clara still remembers this (my current assumption is that she doesn't remember very much of the other lives). No, I don't think she remembers either. Maybe snatches, or snippets of dreams, but she couldn't remember all of them and stay sane.
Yes, it makes sense that it ties in with that - but I don't think it rules out the acknowledgement that we have seen the dangerous side of fear in Midnight. Oh absolutely not. Nothing in [Moffat] Who ever has just one meaning.
Scared may be a superpower, but it's not enough - in a different sense, it failed Scared Bob in The Time of Angels when the Doctor promised fear would keep him alive and it didn't. Ooooh I can't believe I forgot about Bob! Thank you.
You still need moral purpose, or luck, or something else, or all of them. Clara's qualifications allow for the bad outcomes too, while steering the child towards the good
( ... )
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It's not a bad impulse, but people just take it too far - especially if they are working from abstracts rather than real people and situations.
To me, that's what it means. We all know fear. We all have our own demons and darkness and shadows and skeletons haunting us. This is what unites us all. We all have these things, we all understand them...and we understand that bit in the middle that can be hard to see unless you are looking for it. Hope. THAT is what unites us. Look beyond the fear to what lies ahead“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where ( ... )
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You may have turned this episode around for me. I need to go back and read more of your metas, but I wanted you to know that yes, you really may have improved this episode for me. So have some of the wonderfully perceptive thoughts of people who have commented. Man, I've needed to drop by here for some time, and I'm glad I finally did.
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This whole episode was so Clara it's ridiculous. ♥
(And I am SO PLEASED I might have turned it around for you. :) :) :) )
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Yes, that's excellent! And that, I think, is what the show does over and over again. It takes children seriously. They are people and they are important. Amelia is - arguably - the most important person in Eleven's life.
And also, as you say, you can't separate the child from the adult. If you want to understand an adult, you must understand the child he or she was. (And if you're having trouble sympathizing with an adult, learning about their childhood helps.)
*nods a lot* Working in a further education college (mostly 16 - 18 year olds) you can already see it. They are in that inbetween stage.
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She also happens to be the monster under the bed
ALKSJF;OIS!!
Clara being the Doctor's teacher is absolutely the best thing about the current season. And if they really go somewhere with monster!Clara I'll be over the moon.
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♥ ♥ ♥
ALKSJF;OIS!!
Twice. When Rupert is scared that something's there, what does she say? (from memory):
CLARA: Do you know what's under your bed?
RUPERT (uncertain): No?
CLARA: Me! (and proceeds to crawl under it)
Clara being the Doctor's teacher is absolutely the best thing about the current season.
It really works. And makes me very happy.
And if they really go somewhere with monster!Clara I'll be over the moon.
She has been monster'd from the start. (Note icon.) If they don't go somewhere with it, I'll eat my cat. (This is why she'll get her own post.)
Reply
Well, that and I think that Clara versus Dark Clara Echo would be a hell of a cool thing and I'd like to have it on my TV.
Reply
Hmmmm. I don't think so, but the mirroring is definitely deliberate. (She looks like an evil Mary Poppins.)
Because Clara is fundamentally a balancing act-controlled yet impulsive, afraid yet bold, sincere yet constantly "on stage," sweet and nurturing yet ruthless when her people are in danger-and it seems to me that if Clara's traits went out of balance then you could get a very scary, messed up maybe-human being.
There's definitely something there. Am fliriting with the thought (well, it's an old thought) that Clara's somehow Time Lord-y. I don't see how, but it'd fit. (It Missy is the Master, Clara could be her daughter???)
Well, that and I think that Clara versus Dark Clara Echo would be a hell of a cool thing and I'd like to have it on my TV.
Very true.
Reply
I think Clara's speech acknowledges Midnight, too - and that we're meant to remember that nightmare of an episode when we hear noises that may or may not be someone knocking on the outside of a stranded ship. "Fear doesn't have to make you cruel or cowardly; fear can make you kind." She admits that fear can make people cruel and cowardly, as it did with so many of the passengers on Midnight, but she explains to the not-yet-Doctor how he can use it as a positive force, something that gets you home, something that makes people companions rather than monsters ( ... )
Reply
It wouldn't have occurred to me either - like I said, it was fortuitous timing. And suddenly things just fell into place. :)
though I did grasp that placing Clara at Coal Hill School (and setting her up with a fellow teacher) identifies her as the modern Barbara, with all the responsibility for challenging the Doctor which that role implies.
And we might get Danny too, so we have an Ian also. (And Danny is already set up as a contrast and mirror. I really can't wait for them to meet!)
I think Clara's speech acknowledges Midnight, too - and that we're meant to remember that nightmare of an episode when we hear noises that may or may not be someone knocking on the outside of a stranded ship.
As did the scene before, with the actual knocking. And the Doctor being stupidly curious...
"Fear doesn't have to make you cruel or cowardly; fear can make you kind." ( ... )
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I'd forgotten the recent use of "cruel and cowardly". Yes, it makes sense that it ties in with that - but I don't think it rules out the acknowledgement that we have seen the dangerous side of fear in Midnight. Scared may be a superpower, but it's not enough - in a different sense, it failed Scared Bob in The Time of Angels when the Doctor promised fear would keep him alive and it didn't. You still need moral purpose, or luck, or something else, or all of them. Clara's qualifications allow for the bad outcomes too, while steering the child towards the good ones.
I hope Danny isn't too much of a mirror, because that was Rory's job.
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... Well, THAT is an entertaining image! ;)
Subconsciously, original Clara still remembers this (my current assumption is that she doesn't remember very much of the other lives).
No, I don't think she remembers either. Maybe snatches, or snippets of dreams, but she couldn't remember all of them and stay sane.
Yes, it makes sense that it ties in with that - but I don't think it rules out the acknowledgement that we have seen the dangerous side of fear in Midnight.
Oh absolutely not. Nothing in [Moffat] Who ever has just one meaning.
Scared may be a superpower, but it's not enough - in a different sense, it failed Scared Bob in The Time of Angels when the Doctor promised fear would keep him alive and it didn't.
Ooooh I can't believe I forgot about Bob! Thank you.
You still need moral purpose, or luck, or something else, or all of them. Clara's qualifications allow for the bad outcomes too, while steering the child towards the good ( ... )
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