I don't think that it's good to paint any group as evil. Casting all "big business owners" as somehow excessive tends to make my teeth hurt. Many of those people worked very hard to get where they are and are also kind, giving people who not only pay incredible amounts of taxes to support the American infrastructure, but tithe and donate their time and money on top of that. Success does not make a person evil. Bill Gates is one of the richest people in the world, and subsequently amazingly generous.
I think that if you make money into an idol, or put the pursuit of money in place of the pursuit of God, then you are committing a grave sin. But having money, no matter how much of it, is not itself sinful.
Well, all that matters is that you can't take it with you. Naked we come, naked we go, and we better learn from that.
The thing is, in modern society you need money to buy freedom, in many ways. I need to take my wallet with me almost everywhere I go. I'm thirsty? I have to BUY a drink. I am tired? I need to pay the bus or tram or railway. I need to talk with someone? I need to have a phone.
There's a german band that has a song with the line "without wallet I needn't go out". I think that's very true, and it's a sad thing.
I think the biggest issue in our society is that we are so mobile. There are plenty of things to do and places to go that you do not have to pay for, except that you have to actually get there. I know that in Atlanta and many other cities they are building an increasing number of planned communities, where everything is within walking distance, including libraries, parks, etc.
What you do with your money is more important than how much you have. Supporting yourself -- buying food, paying rent, buying clothes -- is necessary. Supporting your family is sometimes necessary as well. Helping others is also necessary, but there are many ways of doing this with money.
actually, i don't even think have an excessive amount of money is evil if it was obtained ethically. the trouble is, most of the time its not because the person cares more bout getting the money than how they are getting the money. JC Penney was a millionare more than once over, and more than once (lost it all in the Depression, earned it over again) and he built his company on the Golden Rule.
its greed, the love of money, thats evil and you can be greedy with a negative bank account.
as far as jesus owning property, i am not sure about that. its just something i haven't thought much about.
I don't believe he ever did. He never owned a house or had his own property, but rather, "foxes have holes, and birds have nests, but the son of man has no place to lay his head."
well, all that means is that he didn't have a place he lived all the time. i'm sure he rented rooms sometimes. it also possible that he had things like clothes etc. he did have a trade, and there is no record that he gave away everything he earned.
Yeah, you're right. I was thinking of owned objects and property. In a later comment I retracted this having read other things people wrote about his clothes.
I mean, we all know that in many ways we need a certain amount of money to live (rent/mortgage, food, children). I don't think anyone has a problem with that. Similar idea with savings - we'll all need something to live on after retirement or a little put away for emergencies if we can.
The problem comes when sensible planning for a comfortable, healthy life becomes greed. If the centre of your life becomes money, if it's all that matters, then I think there's a problem.
If you save money in order to take care of the needs of yourself and your family, that's a different matter.
Acts 4 speaks of the early church, if not of Jesus specifically
31And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
32And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
That passage was primarily what St. Augustine based his rule for community life on. It's a beautiful thought, when you really think about it, for a Christian community to live like that. It's not always practical in today's world, but I think even if we don't live strictly in that sort of communal living today (and I wish we would, personally), I think the spirit of that passage can be lived out by recognizing that all the good things we have are gifts from God in some way, either directly or indirectly, and therefore what we have should be freely at the disposal of anyone who needs.
I think what must be kept in mind always is justice. Is it unjust for a person to own more than they need for sustenance? Not necessarily. Is it unjust for one to have less than they need? Also not necessarily. Poverty and wealth are complex issues, and neither is necessarily an affront to justice, though often both are in some way.
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I don't think that it's good to paint any group as evil. Casting all "big business owners" as somehow excessive tends to make my teeth hurt. Many of those people worked very hard to get where they are and are also kind, giving people who not only pay incredible amounts of taxes to support the American infrastructure, but tithe and donate their time and money on top of that. Success does not make a person evil. Bill Gates is one of the richest people in the world, and subsequently amazingly generous.
I think that if you make money into an idol, or put the pursuit of money in place of the pursuit of God, then you are committing a grave sin. But having money, no matter how much of it, is not itself sinful.
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The thing is, in modern society you need money to buy freedom, in many ways. I need to take my wallet with me almost everywhere I go. I'm thirsty? I have to BUY a drink. I am tired? I need to pay the bus or tram or railway. I need to talk with someone? I need to have a phone.
There's a german band that has a song with the line "without wallet I needn't go out". I think that's very true, and it's a sad thing.
Reply
I think the biggest issue in our society is that we are so mobile. There are plenty of things to do and places to go that you do not have to pay for, except that you have to actually get there. I know that in Atlanta and many other cities they are building an increasing number of planned communities, where everything is within walking distance, including libraries, parks, etc.
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its greed, the love of money, thats evil and you can be greedy with a negative bank account.
as far as jesus owning property, i am not sure about that. its just something i haven't thought much about.
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I mean, we all know that in many ways we need a certain amount of money to live (rent/mortgage, food, children). I don't think anyone has a problem with that. Similar idea with savings - we'll all need something to live on after retirement or a little put away for emergencies if we can.
The problem comes when sensible planning for a comfortable, healthy life becomes greed. If the centre of your life becomes money, if it's all that matters, then I think there's a problem.
If you save money in order to take care of the needs of yourself and your family, that's a different matter.
Reply
31And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
32And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
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