I think you were fully within your rights and within reason here, Cel. For a sec (based upon the cut title), I thought your post had not just been flamed but deleted.
Furthermore, I agree entirely with your sentiment about accolades of this type being meaningless if every bit of writing (or a majority, or even too large a minority) is so rewarded.
Being nice or being silent is one thing; "refrigerator critiques" are quite another. Personally, I have relatively low standards when it comes to the majority of films (i.e., I like most of what I bother to watch), but higher standards when it comes to what should get 3 or 4 stars out of 4, or an 8-10 on IMDb, let alone be Oscar-worthy.
If someone only ever says nice things, how can you believe them? If they say what they think is both good and bad, you can be pretty sure that if they give a compliment it's meant and earned. Hear, hear! My 9th grade art teacher gave me A-minuses and B-plusses, but let me know straight out that I had very limited talent in certain areas of art and design
( ... )
yes, I suppose that cut title could be a bit misleading. ;-) A bit over a year ago I was in fact banned from a Yahoo list for having expressed some negative opinions - not on-list, but in someone else's LJ - and refusing to retract or apologize for posting those opinions in a quasi-public space. That's a simplification of events, but sums up what happened from my point of view.
I also like many films that I acknowledge as not being high-quality - Revenge of the Nerds leaps to mind, for one. Same with books, or anything else - I'm a bit of a gourmet cook, but sometimes I want takeout fried chicken, you know? Which does not mean that I think KFC is great cuisine
( ... )
I think that part of the difficulty in this particular situation/discussion is that fanfiction, for many, is something they write or read only for fun, and they don't really care whether they do it well or poorly - at least not enough to actually strive to improve, and be willing to take legitimate criticism to that end.
See, this is where my brain suddenly goes "WTF?!?" and starts making grinding noises. I truthfully cannot understand this attitude. If you're doing something, even for fun, why *not* want to be the best you can be at it? I mean, okay, it might not be meant as something "serious" for a living or something like that, but if you're putting it out in public, don't you at least owe yourself the courtesy of putting out something that is going to *improve* people's opinions of you?
...if you're putting it out in public, don't you at least owe yourself the courtesy of putting out something that is going to *improve* people's opinions of you?
Well, I think so! Even if I don't attach my right name to my fanfic, I want my pen name(s) to be respected
( ... )
I'm a feedback whore myself, and I'll take the bad with the good because that's the way life is. Obviously it's more pleasant to get positive comments, but the negative ones can be a lot more helpful in the long run. I have to confess that part of the reason I don't do much beta-ing is because I'm not good at pulling apart what makes a story good or makes it crap - it's easy to say "I like" "I don't like," but much harder to figure out why.
...any writer who says that they just want to hear positive feedback needs to have their ideas readjusted. Possibly with a large and heavy axe.
Do you think we could hire Gimli for the purpose? Or maybe the Uruk-Hai Track Team, who have been woefully MIA for some time?
As a beta reader, I find I'm more the sort of "justify this", "correct that", and "does the other thing really need to be there", as well as "reality check bouncing here... fix" type of beta. I don't know whether this is something other people need, but it's what I do. I've got to the point where I beta in .rtf so that I can differentiate between deletions (which I mark in red), additions (in blue) and comments or queries (in purple). It's easier that way.
I always figure if someone is slamming my stories and hasn't invited me to the party, I should just keep my nose out of it.
Sensible. AFAIK this has never happened to me, but I've never written anything as controversial as Legacy, either. (It still bewilders me that it's controversial, actually. The Frodo willing to threaten Gollum's life - which happens even in the film! - had to come from somewhere. Ah well.)
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Furthermore, I agree entirely with your sentiment about accolades of this type being meaningless if every bit of writing (or a majority, or even too large a minority) is so rewarded.
Being nice or being silent is one thing; "refrigerator critiques" are quite another. Personally, I have relatively low standards when it comes to the majority of films (i.e., I like most of what I bother to watch), but higher standards when it comes to what should get 3 or 4 stars out of 4, or an 8-10 on IMDb, let alone be Oscar-worthy.
If someone only ever says nice things, how can you believe them? If they say what they think is both good and bad, you can be pretty sure that if they give a compliment it's meant and earned.
Hear, hear!
My 9th grade art teacher gave me A-minuses and B-plusses, but let me know straight out that I had very limited talent in certain areas of art and design ( ... )
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I also like many films that I acknowledge as not being high-quality - Revenge of the Nerds leaps to mind, for one. Same with books, or anything else - I'm a bit of a gourmet cook, but sometimes I want takeout fried chicken, you know? Which does not mean that I think KFC is great cuisine ( ... )
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See, this is where my brain suddenly goes "WTF?!?" and starts making grinding noises. I truthfully cannot understand this attitude. If you're doing something, even for fun, why *not* want to be the best you can be at it? I mean, okay, it might not be meant as something "serious" for a living or something like that, but if you're putting it out in public, don't you at least owe yourself the courtesy of putting out something that is going to *improve* people's opinions of you?
Possibly I'm just odd.
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Neither can I.
...if you're putting it out in public, don't you at least owe yourself the courtesy of putting out something that is going to *improve* people's opinions of you?
Well, I think so! Even if I don't attach my right name to my fanfic, I want my pen name(s) to be respected ( ... )
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...any writer who says that they just want to hear positive feedback needs to have their ideas readjusted. Possibly with a large and heavy axe.
Do you think we could hire Gimli for the purpose? Or maybe the Uruk-Hai Track Team, who have been woefully MIA for some time?
Cel
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I think they'd all be glad of the exercise.
As a beta reader, I find I'm more the sort of "justify this", "correct that", and "does the other thing really need to be there", as well as "reality check bouncing here... fix" type of beta. I don't know whether this is something other people need, but it's what I do. I've got to the point where I beta in .rtf so that I can differentiate between deletions (which I mark in red), additions (in blue) and comments or queries (in purple). It's easier that way.
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Sensible. AFAIK this has never happened to me, but I've never written anything as controversial as Legacy, either. (It still bewilders me that it's controversial, actually. The Frodo willing to threaten Gollum's life - which happens even in the film! - had to come from somewhere. Ah well.)
Cel
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