Comments | bookshop: Fannish spaces, girls, and the culture of silence.

bookshop

Fannish spaces, girls, and the culture of silence.

May 10, 2010 16:32

I've been thinking about this post for months, and there's no easy way to say it. It's born out of a lot of thinky thoughts on women, fandom, rape culture, and basically all the things I've been posting about lately.

In January, I made this post about gay subtext, and I was overwhelmed at the response it had. Then I made another post about ( Read more... )

us, je veux ton monkey wrench, fandom

Comments 228

mistresscurvy May 10 2010, 21:45:45 UTC

I think one of the uncomfortable truths about fandom (and about women, generally) is that we grow up in the same soup of sexism that men do. We have been conditioned for years to find ourselves in men's stories, to view life from the default position that is male, and it requires constant effort and vigilance to not fall back into that default, regardless of our gender. Fandom as a whole is not some separate country that has managed to not be impacted by this ( ... )

zahrawithaz May 11 2010, 19:36:39 UTC

I agree with much that you say here--especially that women are brought up and taught the same sexist patterns that men are--and I really like your point that "slash fandom allows us to own those sexual desires while simultaneously sidestepping our discomfort with our bodies, what they look like, and how they work ( ... )

rez_lo May 13 2010, 02:35:16 UTC

>>het that is very focused on women's physical selves, the experience of being embodied as female

That is very nicely put, and makes me sit up and go YES. "The body when it's mine," is the way I think of it.

It makes me kind of angry, in fact, to see f/m fic dismissed as heteronormative. The two things are not the same, nor are they equivalent in fannish terms. There is, in fact, a hell of a lot of het fic out there that's written about women being women, and a lot more in which the writers are trying, they're honestly trying to make that switch from male gaze. I feel that they should be encouraged, personally. Because it's not easy, as I think we all agree.

mistresscurvy May 14 2010, 15:59:10 UTC

It makes me kind of angry, in fact, to see f/m fic dismissed as heteronormative. The two things are not the same, nor are they equivalent in fannish terms. Hey, just wanted to say that I'm sorry that it sounded like I was dismissing all het as being heteronormative. That's clearly not true, and there's certainly plenty of slash and femslash out there that is far more misogynistic and heteronormative than a lot of the het. I apologize, and I absolutely agree that het fic that's written about women being women should be supported and not dismissed, and I'm sorry that I did so ( ... )

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ajremix May 10 2010, 22:05:57 UTC

After sitting here for a few minutes and reflecting on what you've written in regards to female characters being passed off purely for 'breaking the ship', I remembered some friends of mine that do that and how it annoys me. I know I'm not immune from it myself (especially in regards to my early and impressionable fannish years) but then I sit back and think about 'what about the female characters in things I like recently ( ... )

imaginarycircus May 10 2010, 22:10:08 UTC

I have never understood the EW GIRLS ethos. Especially when it comes from women. I can understand being in the mood to read slash. I can't understand never ever being in the mood to read about a character who is the same gender as I am.

mechanicaljewel May 10 2010, 22:38:12 UTC

The whole "I can't help that the female characters aren't interesting!" is just such a cop-out excuse. There was a stretch there where my main fandoms were Jeeves & Wooster and Sherlock Holmes. It was mostly slash. But guess what? I still loved Corky Pirbright, Angela Travers, Stiffy Byng and Irene Adler! Just because I didn't want them to hook up with Bertie or Holmes didn't mean there wasn't room in my heart for them. And after a while I got tired of BOYSBOYSBOYS and went looking for more female heavy fandoms. How depressing that the best place to find great female characters is in superhero comics-- they're treated pretty terribly in canon, but they're still treated better than a lot of women in fic! Even more importantly, fans are more likely to call out sexism in both canon and fic. I remember once being so happy while reading the comments to a Captain America/Iron Man fic where the narration disparaged Sharon Carter (Cap's canonical love interest), and having nearly everyone say "That was Not Cool and it made me not ( ... )

ajremix May 10 2010, 23:18:55 UTC

Word on the comics being a surprisingly supportive place for their female characters. Honestly, I can't remember a fandom in which so many people love various male AND female characters equally (or at least more proportionally than other fandoms). The last fandom I was in either ignored or lambasted the (few) females (or analogous) there was and the one before THAT, the canon had far too many instances of perfectly competent, resourceful and thoughtful female characters in various damsel-in-distress situations that I couldn't take them seriously anymore.

I'm sure it really says something when superpowered chicks with boob windows, fishnets and bathing suits have more respect from fans than other fandoms I can think of at the moment, but damned if I want to even get into analyzing it right now.

phasera May 10 2010, 22:38:14 UTC

awesome post. question, then: where's your heaps of fanfic with the strong and empowered female leads? point me to it, b/c i'd like to read it and see what it is i'm missing out on and there by marginalizing myself, perpetuating misogyny, etc etc.

bookshop May 10 2010, 23:14:09 UTC

I've done very little writing in the last year--just 4 significant fics and a couple of ficlets. But sure, here you go.
- You can read my Glee/Hikaru no Go crossover written from Rachel's pov here
- my White Collar OT3 pornlet written from Elizabeth's pov here
- my Gwen/Morgana drabble here
- my Kris/Katy/Adam fic written from Katy's POV here
- my rpf fic, in which all the significant people in the POV character's life are women, here
- my h/d fic in which Hermione functions (as I like to think she always does in my fic) as both the major catalyst for the plot, and the glue that holds them all together, here.

I could dig back farther for more fic--or if you want to read some truly amazing female-centric fic you could start with my femslash tag on delicious. But the major point here is that this is an evolution, a journey that I am on, that I am trying to be open and self-critical and self-aware about. I think I've been very open about that, in this post and in the previous one.I hope that answers your question and that you will ( ... )

phasera May 11 2010, 00:09:49 UTC

i appreciate that you answered my question literally and not in the (mean) spirit with which it was asked. i admit my initial reaction to reading this post was a heavy eye-roll - mostly because the tone of this post comes across to me as really self-congratulatory and superior-sounding and i don't really know that you've earned that yet. but far be it for me to say what you've earned, right? anyway, i guess what i'm trying to say is i'm sorry. :( keep on keeping on. even if it does kinda harsh the gay porn buzz, lol.

bookshop May 11 2010, 00:44:20 UTC

Well, I think for me, it comes down to waiting until some faraway day when I'm perfect and have figured out everything and can present myself as some kind of expert authority figure on X issue of my choice, or whether I want to work on changing myself and my community now, from within, as the monkey wrench or whatever ( ... )

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