It seems to me that the argument morphed from correct flag etiquette to the discussion of what the flag stands for as a symbol.
I tend to stand with the very strict definition of flag etiquette. That is, while I understand that the National Parks lowered their flags to half mast three years ago when a NPS employee was killed along the US/Mexican border, it is not a correct use of flag etiquette.
That being said, the discussion about the flag as a symbol interested me more.
I think Darren's post starting with: "I'm not sure if you are just being difficult or not. To me these things are important because the flag is a symbol of this country which is to be respected" is where the symbol stuff started. Also, your continuation with: "What does the flag symbolize?" This current post is an attempt to answer your opening: "If you (or anyone) can tell me what, precisely, the flag symbolizes that we ought to respect, then I'd be interested in reading it..."
The foundation of where I come from with my comments: I think the understanding of the symbol of the flag is reach subjectively. Also, I think that even though my understanding of what the flag for hasn't changed, the public awareness of the flag and what it stands for today is much less than it was in the Civil War (my example as it is an interest of mine both personally and professionally).
My understanding of the flag and what it symbolizes: The flag does symbolize events in history. However, that pales in comparison to how it symbolizes the people that worked, thought, died, and fought (battles and lifestyles) for the flag as a symbol of this country. The flag as a symbol of this country is like the Nike Swoosh as a symbol of Nike. However, the flag differs in that the people who use it as a symbol did so much more for it. And that is now included in my understanding of the symbol. To have someone in the civil war drop their weapon and run at full speed away from cover to grab a flag from the dying flagbearer illustrates how our current society has changed its perspective of the flag. I don't see a general member of the public doing that today. And I argue that the soldiers of the Civil War were members of the general public. Also, the flag is flown as a symbol showing that Americans still are standing for their beliefs. I.e. the story of the shelling of Ft. M'Henry and the flag flying through the night, etc. etc. I can expand on all that more, but I think it does the job of getting across what I intend.
Here's the balance: When I get into Mascot discussions, I forward the thought that symbols are what people who observe them make them out to be. Not what the symbol was initially meant to be. So I ask myself what the difference between that and the symbol of the flag is. To me, the difference is the passion put into the flag historically, and the original reason a flag was decided upon as a symbol of the United States. Mascots and university flags, etc, were decided upon for much less important reasons than the United States Flag, which was first described on June 14, 1777 by the Continental Congress. I do believe those boys had more on their minds than sport events and apartment balconies.
And that is what I've been trying to say for over a week now.
I tend to stand with the very strict definition of flag etiquette. That is, while I understand that the National Parks lowered their flags to half mast three years ago when a NPS employee was killed along the US/Mexican border, it is not a correct use of flag etiquette.
That being said, the discussion about the flag as a symbol interested me more.
I think Darren's post starting with: "I'm not sure if you are just being difficult or not. To me these things are important because the flag is a symbol of this country which is to be respected" is where the symbol stuff started. Also, your continuation with: "What does the flag symbolize?" This current post is an attempt to answer your opening: "If you (or anyone) can tell me what, precisely, the flag symbolizes that we ought to respect, then I'd be interested in reading it..."
The foundation of where I come from with my comments: I think the understanding of the symbol of the flag is reach subjectively. Also, I think that even though my understanding of what the flag for hasn't changed, the public awareness of the flag and what it stands for today is much less than it was in the Civil War (my example as it is an interest of mine both personally and professionally).
My understanding of the flag and what it symbolizes: The flag does symbolize events in history. However, that pales in comparison to how it symbolizes the people that worked, thought, died, and fought (battles and lifestyles) for the flag as a symbol of this country. The flag as a symbol of this country is like the Nike Swoosh as a symbol of Nike. However, the flag differs in that the people who use it as a symbol did so much more for it. And that is now included in my understanding of the symbol. To have someone in the civil war drop their weapon and run at full speed away from cover to grab a flag from the dying flagbearer illustrates how our current society has changed its perspective of the flag. I don't see a general member of the public doing that today. And I argue that the soldiers of the Civil War were members of the general public. Also, the flag is flown as a symbol showing that Americans still are standing for their beliefs. I.e. the story of the shelling of Ft. M'Henry and the flag flying through the night, etc. etc. I can expand on all that more, but I think it does the job of getting across what I intend.
Here's the balance: When I get into Mascot discussions, I forward the thought that symbols are what people who observe them make them out to be. Not what the symbol was initially meant to be. So I ask myself what the difference between that and the symbol of the flag is. To me, the difference is the passion put into the flag historically, and the original reason a flag was decided upon as a symbol of the United States. Mascots and university flags, etc, were decided upon for much less important reasons than the United States Flag, which was first described on June 14, 1777 by the Continental Congress. I do believe those boys had more on their minds than sport events and apartment balconies.
And that is what I've been trying to say for over a week now.
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