Comments | zoocoyote: Osama bin Whatever

zoocoyote

Osama bin Whatever

May 01, 2011 23:13

So apparently Osama's dead. This, in spite of the pretty persistent rumors that he died up to a decade ago. Maybe things really did go down as they're portrayed in the news, but in all honesty, it would not surprise me one bit if the whole thing was staged and he really did die several years ago. Whether a partisan ploy by the Democrats or a pro- ( Read more... )

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heavens_steed May 2 2011, 09:30:43 UTC

Well, I'm afraid I have to take issue with a few of your statements ( ... )

(part 1) zoocoyote May 2 2011, 20:47:57 UTC

It's true that bin Laden's potential earlier death has an element of conspiracy theory to it, but the fact that recent administrations (dems and reps both) have blatantly lied to the American public on multiple occasions leaves it within the realm of possibility to me. Besides, if he did die, for example, 6 years ago, that wouldn't helped Bush much given that he was already reelected. Nor would it have had a major influence on the legislature, where the party in power is cyclic--Americans get tired of one shitty party and switch their allegiance to the other shitty party ( ... )

(part 2) zoocoyote May 2 2011, 20:49:09 UTC

I can think of many examples of lost liberty: the increasing obsolescence of warrants in surveillance, suspension of habeus corpus and indefinite holding of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, SB 1070 in Arizona, increasing hostility to, and tracking of foreign visitors, even those from "friendly" countries, the legalization and banality of torture in violation of the Geneva Convention, the use of secret prisons overseas by the CIA, the conditions under which Bradley Manning is being held (I don't oppose his incarceration in itself), the restriction of free speech to "zones" at protests, the privatization of prisons (leading to a financial incentive to incarcerate Americans, when we already have the highest rate of incarceration in the world, mostly for victimless crimes), and of course the whole TSA. By the way, they've started branching out to bus terminals and train stations too, and neither of those modes of transportation are typically flown into the sides of buildings at 500 miles an hour. Some of these losses of liberty aren't as ( ... )

hastka May 6 2011, 18:48:58 UTC

I need to say I agree 100% with the notion of them "winning" in regard to the "loss" of liberties. Even though the loss isn't complete, it's sure a daily reminder of inconvenience ( ... )

zoocoyote May 6 2011, 20:01:20 UTC

Funny you should mention that, because bankrupting the US was apparently part of Al Qaeda's strategy--see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_qaeda#Strategy and here http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/bin-ladens-war-against-the-us-economy/2011/04/27/AFDOPjfF_blog.html . We haven't been bankrupted yet, but we're close, and while far from all of the blame for the recession we're still in can be attributed to our continued reaction to 9/11, some of it certainly can be ( ... )

hastka May 6 2011, 20:29:30 UTC

I couldn't agree more. As I saw all the people chanting U-S-A at the white house, I was like, doesn't ANYONE see the irony here?!?! So glad at least one other person does ( ... )

Mission.. aw, who the fuck cares. gabrielhorse May 9 2011, 06:12:49 UTC

In answer to your hypothetical question, I for one do see the irony, but I know we are part of the "silent minority" who are actually paying attention- and that any attempts to warn the general public anytime our awareness picks up something disconcerting or dangerous will probably either be ignored or worse, make us targets for people looking for a target to focus their frustration upon. The fact you don't see any value in reveling is the kind of thing that makes you a target of the kind of people who do- whom furthermore would rather you join their ridiculous flailing about and backslapping. When you don't, it bothers them and they would rather try to force you to join in their game than view the world from a broader perspective.

Also, there's nothing wrong with being snarky- trust me on this one ;)

Shell Bullet of Realism. gabrielhorse May 9 2011, 06:25:44 UTC

If you ask me, the real purpose of this increased level of surveillance has nothing to do with terrorists at all, but more to do with corporations prying further into our personal affairs to better design products they can market to us based on the data they get from watching our every move. Advertising is nearly every fucking where you look- why is that? Someone put it there, and furthermore, they designed what it would look like knowing how we'd react to it based upon data taken from other people's behaviors ( ... )

Credit where it is due. gabrielhorse May 9 2011, 06:51:16 UTC

A religion, I might add, that is also a political ideology.

I couldn't agree with you more, EVER. It IS fitting someone like you should point this out.

However, I do not necessarily believe that is a bad thing. The U.S. military was established to look out for our national defense and national interests. Our military was never meant to be the police of the world or to be the source of humanitarian relief. Agreed. No nation can always come to the defense of another, nor should it be expected to. People only use diplomacy to try to gain something without risking the uncertainy of chaotic violence ( ... )

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