I am actually going to have to agree with your here. That episode left me feeling kinda dirty and I wasn't sure why. I'm used to the show being dark but I think the rape references were just getting a bit much.
But mostly. I was left flat and head scratching. One thing I'm confused about. The story arc so far has revolved around these alphas. They've been pretty interesting and now they're all dead. That was the impression I got when it was all over. So, um... What was the point of all that. Or (as I've already done with ep!) maybe I missed something.
But, yeah, I'm with you. I didn't think much of that one. :(
That episode left me feeling kinda dirty and I wasn't sure why. I got the feeling they were all, you want stuff you want? Fine, but then we'll take some as payment. Whatever, show. Everything there to possibly squee about, fandom's done better, and there's no way I can squee when I'm left with throw-up in my mouth. Sorry.
The alpha thing is beyond weird. Idk. I mean, there's got to be some reason Crowley wanted to know about purgatory that still going to be mentioned, right? Who was Crowley working for? But it begs the question, with King of Hell in smoke, um, what happens to Hell now? Kinda blows to pieces the whole nice meta comparison of Heaven and Hell switching roles that they had if someone else unknown takes over now. Who knows. I'm done trying to figure it out. Things are definitely confusing after this one. Maybe next week will explain more before hiatus?
I think Samuel was saying that Dean would have ruined their one chance to bring Mary back if he succeeded in torturing/killing Crowley, thereby putting his mission to save Sam's soul above Samuel's mission to raise Mary. But honestly, Samuel was completely psychotic in this episode, so who knows? They could have played that whole Mary situation in a way that made him sympathetic and complex, and instead we got... whatever that was. Dean's comment about what Mary would think when she found out Samuel let her sons be sacrificed was completely valid and yet totally steamrolled. I don't think any parent, no matter how grieved at the loss of their child, would ever think of dragging that child out of Heaven and forcing her to live through the same pain. Just... what? WHAT?
And, yeah, major agreement on everything else. This season already has a lot stacked against it; they can't afford to be this sloppy and lazy with major plot points. UGH. So frustrating. I want to Pollyanna over here, and they aren't giving me much to work with
If that's what they meant, then that was a HELLA confusing line! I mean, didn't Samuel give them plans that lead them to that place? There was no explicit Dean choosing between Sam and Mary. Samuel never asked for him to, only said that he couldn't help. The only time in my mind Dean chose between the two was in his 'What Is' djinn dream, and my mind immediately went there instead.
But yea, pretty much all of Samuel's motivations...well, all season really, have left me at: WHAT??? But this. Idk, I can buy him wanting to rescue her soul from purgatory so it has a chance for heaven. But bringing her physically back to life? TO DO WHAT? Coming back into the hunting life she hated??
I want to Pollyanna over here, and they aren't giving me much to work with. Right? I'm really not asking for much. I think I'm pretty easy to please, as long as the characters I tune in for every week make some semblance of sense.
*I’m not just going to LEAVE him down there!* That's what I thought should be Dean's motivation all along. Hopefully that will be stated sometime.
And I don't know what is up with Grandpa Samuel. His motivation is off. Wouldn't Mary have been in heaven with him anyway? I have no idea what he meant by saying Dean sold out his mother. That never happened, even when he went back in time he never did anything like that. At every turn he attempted to save her. When he and Sam went back together, they were even willing to not be born.
The episode was actually taken from one of those "women in prison" type movies so I think they were playing on that theme. A little too much. Possibly could they have named it something else and not gone there?
I just think it's insane that we are not getting that motivation from Dean. I could excuse it for only so long, but when Cas literally paints out a picture for him, and Dean's response isn't that? Idek. I mean, HI, THE GUY IS THE REASON YOU CAN STILL STAND ON EARTH. Along with the rest of the population. Some concern for the soul down there would be nice. (And I have no idea why Cas said he's been down there for a year. Sure, an year in THEIR time, but more like over 100 in Hell's time, if Dean's 4 months=4 years. They better keep that continuity up.)
so I think they were playing on that theme. A little too much. Possibly could they have named it something else and not gone there? We've had plenty of eps that use titles of movies with little to no tie back to the title. I think the writer used it as an excuse to inject as much useless, mean-spirited frat "humor" as they wanted. But it's really not.
A garrison of angels should be battering their way into Hell to rescue Sam as far as I'm concerned. Everybody should be fighting for his soul, even if it is battered, you'd think they'd still want to give him peace.
And Dean especially. He was only a soul when he was in hell. He knows how real that is. As much as he was worried about it before Sam came back, he should still have that same concern and nightmares about it now he knows Sam is still there. Absolutely.
I'll have to come back to this post because I am in the middle of my LAST EVIL PAPER of the semester and if I stop now I won't meet my deadline. However, YES! THIS!!!!! Can you believe that this show is actually run by a woman? WHAT. THE. FUCK?
OH NO, GOOD LUCK! I'm just at the beginning of finals studying myself, I feel your pain!
But yea. I often wonder if Gamble just is one of those women that just doesn't SEE it, or whether this is all of what she fights with all the time and she just has to decide which battles to fight, and which to concede for leverage in other areas. It's hard to see how anyone could have passed that torture scene, and yet it went through multiple channels and still got to be aired. Obviously standards & practices has no rule about implied genital mutilation. Go figure.
UGH YES, THIS. TO JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING YOU SAID. The whole "let's leave Sam's soul down there" plan makes no fucking sense. Probably because the show never bothers to clearly define what a "soul" is, and all we have to go on is what's been shown by the canon. And according to THAT, the longer a soul is left in Hell, the more fucked up it is. ERGO: LEAVING SAM'S SOUL DOWN THERE = A VERY, VERY, VERY STUPID PLAN
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But mostly. I was left flat and head scratching. One thing I'm confused about. The story arc so far has revolved around these alphas. They've been pretty interesting and now they're all dead. That was the impression I got when it was all over. So, um... What was the point of all that. Or (as I've already done with ep!) maybe I missed something.
But, yeah, I'm with you. I didn't think much of that one. :(
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I got the feeling they were all, you want stuff you want? Fine, but then we'll take some as payment. Whatever, show. Everything there to possibly squee about, fandom's done better, and there's no way I can squee when I'm left with throw-up in my mouth. Sorry.
The alpha thing is beyond weird. Idk. I mean, there's got to be some reason Crowley wanted to know about purgatory that still going to be mentioned, right? Who was Crowley working for? But it begs the question, with King of Hell in smoke, um, what happens to Hell now? Kinda blows to pieces the whole nice meta comparison of Heaven and Hell switching roles that they had if someone else unknown takes over now. Who knows. I'm done trying to figure it out. Things are definitely confusing after this one. Maybe next week will explain more before hiatus?
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And, yeah, major agreement on everything else. This season already has a lot stacked against it; they can't afford to be this sloppy and lazy with major plot points. UGH. So frustrating. I want to Pollyanna over here, and they aren't giving me much to work with
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But yea, pretty much all of Samuel's motivations...well, all season really, have left me at: WHAT??? But this. Idk, I can buy him wanting to rescue her soul from purgatory so it has a chance for heaven. But bringing her physically back to life? TO DO WHAT? Coming back into the hunting life she hated??
I want to Pollyanna over here, and they aren't giving me much to work with.
Right? I'm really not asking for much. I think I'm pretty easy to please, as long as the characters I tune in for every week make some semblance of sense.
Reply
And I don't know what is up with Grandpa Samuel. His motivation is off. Wouldn't Mary have been in heaven with him anyway? I have no idea what he meant by saying Dean sold out his mother. That never happened, even when he went back in time he never did anything like that. At every turn he attempted to save her. When he and Sam went back together, they were even willing to not be born.
The episode was actually taken from one of those "women in prison" type movies so I think they were playing on that theme. A little too much. Possibly could they have named it something else and not gone there?
Reply
so I think they were playing on that theme. A little too much. Possibly could they have named it something else and not gone there?
We've had plenty of eps that use titles of movies with little to no tie back to the title. I think the writer used it as an excuse to inject as much useless, mean-spirited frat "humor" as they wanted. But it's really not.
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And Dean especially. He was only a soul when he was in hell. He knows how real that is. As much as he was worried about it before Sam came back, he should still have that same concern and nightmares about it now he knows Sam is still there. Absolutely.
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But yea. I often wonder if Gamble just is one of those women that just doesn't SEE it, or whether this is all of what she fights with all the time and she just has to decide which battles to fight, and which to concede for leverage in other areas. It's hard to see how anyone could have passed that torture scene, and yet it went through multiple channels and still got to be aired. Obviously standards & practices has no rule about implied genital mutilation. Go figure.
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