Interesting that you brought up the Pope election process. I hadn't thought about that in relation to this controversy. Thanks!
Combining the two -- since I like to see how things are interconnected -- we get three (very) general groups of Muslims: 1) Those who are radical and/or extreme in their Muslim faith and both denounced the Pope and incited violence in this cartoon controversy. 2) Those who have remained nonviolent in the cartoon controversy but spoke out/held negative views against the Pope. Or the other way around (didn't oppose the Pope election, but participated in embassy attack). 3) Those who did neither, but are still Muslims nonetheless.
I have no idea what percentages of Muslims belong to what group. But I'm willing to keep my olive branch out for group 3 and I hope for open dialogue and mutual civility with group 2.
You're definitely right, branding someone as the devil/Palpatine/etc. is wrong in so many levels. In light of that, your demand for mutual understanding (or the willingness to understand) is very fair. I've simply been lucky in my experience: people of different faiths I've met usually have "desire to understand" as a common starting point, and I'm so glad for that.
Thanks for the link. I'm not sure if I want to leave a comment in Fritz's post because while he (s/he?) is consistent in his argument, his starting premise is very different from mine.
Fritz's premises include the Decline theory (that the Islamic civilization peaked during early Ottoman Empire and has been in constant decline ever since), essentialization/Orientalism (that what he calls "Islamic cultural value" is a thing of the non-West, and a unified set of value at that), clash of civilization theory (made famous by Samuel Hungtington, Benard Lewis, etc. -- important think tankers who haven't paid enough attention to recent scholarship that challenges their view, but unfortunately very influential in Washington), and even a little bit of Marxist theory (that civilizations are constantly evolving "upward" unless stuck at a stage without proper catalyst), among many.
When he made sweeping claims about Islam and Islamic values, Fritz didn't take regional politics or the impact of colonialism into consideration at all, which is almost entirely what my regional studies-anthropologist-social scientist education consists of.
I've basically spent the past 7-8 years debunking the "Islam is an age-old civilization" theory -- or more accurately, studied under those who actively debunk this misconception -- so it's hard for me to take any cries for religious/social reform seriously when the person rallying for change doesn't understand the "Muslim world" beyond a shallow, surface-y level.
*confuzzles*
Wait a minute... why the heck am I leaving feedback to you for a post you didn't write? Heh, thanks for being my sounding board. I guess I might as well keep what I wrote even though it's completely off-topic in terms of replying to your comment ^_^;;
Just thinking out loud. Maybe once I think things through more I'll comment in Fritz's post.
The strange thing is that over 50% of my clients are Muslims from West Africa, and religious tollerance is the norm, so I know all about group number 3. They usually have no political interest.
The Pakistani are different. I see the distrust because I'm both Catholic and a woman, but it passes when they know I can do my job.
I find that number 1 is usually people who mix religion and politics, and that's the result. Although I have yet to meet any of them in person. *g*
I find that number 1 is usually people who mix religion and politics, and that's the result. Although I have yet to meet any of them in person. *g* Me neither, at least not in the extreme/radical camp. Let's hope we'll continue to not-meet any!
Combining the two -- since I like to see how things are interconnected -- we get three (very) general groups of Muslims:
1) Those who are radical and/or extreme in their Muslim faith and both denounced the Pope and incited violence in this cartoon controversy.
2) Those who have remained nonviolent in the cartoon controversy but spoke out/held negative views against the Pope. Or the other way around (didn't oppose the Pope election, but participated in embassy attack).
3) Those who did neither, but are still Muslims nonetheless.
I have no idea what percentages of Muslims belong to what group. But I'm willing to keep my olive branch out for group 3 and I hope for open dialogue and mutual civility with group 2.
You're definitely right, branding someone as the devil/Palpatine/etc. is wrong in so many levels. In light of that, your demand for mutual understanding (or the willingness to understand) is very fair. I've simply been lucky in my experience: people of different faiths I've met usually have "desire to understand" as a common starting point, and I'm so glad for that.
Reply
Reply
Fritz's premises include the Decline theory (that the Islamic civilization peaked during early Ottoman Empire and has been in constant decline ever since), essentialization/Orientalism (that what he calls "Islamic cultural value" is a thing of the non-West, and a unified set of value at that), clash of civilization theory (made famous by Samuel Hungtington, Benard Lewis, etc. -- important think tankers who haven't paid enough attention to recent scholarship that challenges their view, but unfortunately very influential in Washington), and even a little bit of Marxist theory (that civilizations are constantly evolving "upward" unless stuck at a stage without proper catalyst), among many.
When he made sweeping claims about Islam and Islamic values, Fritz didn't take regional politics or the impact of colonialism into consideration at all, which is almost entirely what my regional studies-anthropologist-social scientist education consists of.
I've basically spent the past 7-8 years debunking the "Islam is an age-old civilization" theory -- or more accurately, studied under those who actively debunk this misconception -- so it's hard for me to take any cries for religious/social reform seriously when the person rallying for change doesn't understand the "Muslim world" beyond a shallow, surface-y level.
*confuzzles*
Wait a minute... why the heck am I leaving feedback to you for a post you didn't write? Heh, thanks for being my sounding board. I guess I might as well keep what I wrote even though it's completely off-topic in terms of replying to your comment ^_^;;
Just thinking out loud. Maybe once I think things through more I'll comment in Fritz's post.
Reply
The Pakistani are different. I see the distrust because I'm both Catholic and a woman, but it passes when they know I can do my job.
I find that number 1 is usually people who mix religion and politics, and that's the result. Although I have yet to meet any of them in person. *g*
Reply
Me neither, at least not in the extreme/radical camp. Let's hope we'll continue to not-meet any!
Reply
Leave a comment