Kumeta interview, Puff, September 2006
In the fall of 2006, SZS was a fairly new manga, with no anime or manga awards in sight. Thus, Kumeta was still Very Depressed, and delievered this beautiful interview which almost feels a bit like a fight between the interviewer who just tries so hard to make Kumeta say the expected things, and Kumeta who just keeps on saying his sad lines. Other things of interest are Kumeta's early thoughts on SZS, comments on the characters, and his manga writing approach, but in general, it is a VERY ENTERTAINING INTERVIEW IN SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS so PLEASE READ IT YOU BRAVE PEOPLE STILL LEFT
"Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei" has an extremely rare flavor, so what kind of person could the author be? One day in June, he changed his busy schedule for us so we could visit him at his work place somewhere in the city. The place was a retro-style Japanese room. Cushions were laid out on the tatami, and Kumeta-sensei was sitting there in seiza position. Was he the same as Zetsubou-sensei!? With these never-ending surprises, we had to start asking questions immediately...
- In what way did the "Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei" project start? At first, we were surprised by your move from Weekly Shounen Sunday to Weekly Shounen Magazine.
K: After the serialization of "Katte ni Kaizou" ended, I had no confidence in coming up with a new work. It felt like people would say, "you're doing the same thing again!" if I had started a new serialization in Sunday. So I moved to Magazine.
- Was there a plan from the beginning to make "Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei" into what it is now?
K: No, from the beginning I was thinking of a serialization with more pages. It was a black comedy with the students at the center of the story, a little romantic comedy with the truant Hitou Nami as the heroine, and her partner, a boy who never went home from school. But the first chapter's page count became about 12 pages shorter than planned, so it didn't look like it the pacing of that plot would work well. I thought that if it were to be short, it would be better to make it catchier. And thinking about that, I put the teacher that I had planned for the project, a teacher who wanted to die, in focus. I was thinking, "Maybe I should draw something like "GTO." (laugh)
- When you compare "Zetsubou-sensei" to "Kaizou", it feels like the otaku jokes have decreased. Is that a conscious decision from your side?
K: Magazine has an image of being more of a magazine that adults read, if you compare it to Sunday. It has an image that normal people are reading it, so I thought I must use general jokes. I didn't think "it's better for me to be quiet about my time in Sunday" or anything like that, but more like: "isn't Magazine something that people - like, for instance, rappers, or bus drivers - are reading normally?"
- I get the impression that the video game jokes clearly have decreased. Is there any reason for that?
K: I think the fact that I myself have lost interest in video games is responsible. Back in the day when the Playstation and the Saturn just had come out on the market, I bought every single game that was released.
- Can't you take the time to play video games any more?
K: This is strange, but when I have free time, I don't think I play any video games, usually. Because games are fun to play in order to escape work.
- But you haven't stopped playing games, right?
K: No, I'm totally playing; especially sports games. I don't think my time playing those has decreased that much. But as I've gotten older RPG's have become harder to play. I've been thinking stuff like "why in the world do I have to do this?" as I'm doing fetch quests.
- In "Kaizou", you were attacking games with anime scenes in them.
K: The completion level for games as a whole has increased now, so there aren't really any games that are that boring in and of themselves anymore. And I think that is related too. Rather than saying that there isn't much to attack anymore... the things to attack today are different to the ones you would attack in the past, maybe.
- You're often making fun of manga serialized in other magazines, but won't you make any parodies of the manga serialized in Magazine? I think there were lots of people right in the beginning who thought that you would most certainly make fun of Akamatsu Ken.
K: ...It's because I was notified from somewhere that it's pretty much forbidden to make fun of other Magazine manga. (laugh) And I've gotten tired of messing around with other mangaka, and I would become a big joke behind the scenes here, like "he's really not doing this well." Also, since I'm not reading Magazine much, I'm thinking I should read some more first, and then pay back properly.
- So you're not reading Magazine?
K: Wouldn't you find it hard to read the magazine that your own manga is serialized in? I'm also doing my best to not get the magazine in my line of sight when I'm at convenience stores and stuff.
- Don't you check for your stuff when it appears in magazines?
K: I don't, I don't. I check the manuscripts before the manga is collected into tankobon, and that's about the only re-reading of my own manga I do. It's embarrassing, so I'm really doing my best to not look at it at all.
- I feel that the jokes about current events have increased recently.
K: Yeah... Jokes about current events will age very quickly, so I think it's a problem to have too many. It's happened that when I'm reading my own manga afterwards, even I don't understand what I meant anymore. But what you laugh about changes over time, and you'll abandon jokes anyway, so I'm also thinking, if you find something funny, use it.
- You often see Yuuka's* real name in the manga, at those places where people's names are written by hand.
K: Yes, we write everything by hand, even as minor as the addresses on postcards. I think the one writing that is my assistant, Maeda-kun. He's also writing names of people he's obsessing about. It's not really about having his obsessions spread, so much as something like, "oh, I like this now!" And then he writes it right away.
- There are lots of small jokes in the background, including those you just mentioned. Is it something you leave so you can let the readers search for them?
K: Yes, that's right. And I also put in a panty shot somewhere every time. When I'm finished making the manuscript, I make sure that it's there. Then I check that I've drawn Tsunetsuki Matoi, the stalker, somewhere once. I pay attention to these two things.
- Do you have any other rules like this?
K: At Sunday, there is punctuation in the speech bubbles, but not at Magazine. But Kitsu Chiri has a very precise personality, so I put punctuation in her lines. I don't think there are many people who notice this, though.
- You are portraying Fuura Kafuka as if she really has her head in the clouds, so do you think that positive people have that sort of image to them?
K: Yes. But it's the same both for positive and negative people. I think they circle around each other closely. Do you look at the phrase "I'll do my best in my next life" in a positive way, or a negative way? That's the difference.
- There are lots of characters appearing in the manga, but did you make them up from the beginning? Or later on, in accordance to what you're writing about?
K: I thought them up properly from the beginning. The number of them was more than enough, maybe. Since I'm having those characters appear in accordance to what I'm writing about, there are still characters that haven't appeared yet due to bad timing. (laugh)
- Do you have things that are easy to write about, or things that are hard to write about, because of the characters?
K: I assemble the characters so that whatever subject becomes easy to write about, so no.
- Do you feel stuff like "I'm bad with this kind of story development", or "this is hard to draw"?
K: Ummm, I'm bad with things like foreshadowing and making story developments that tug you along. I can't draw if I'm not thinking it's fun at the very moment I'm drawing it. I start to dislike what I'm doing if I've been planning the story development beforehand, so I'm not making any drafts.
- Eh? You're not making drafts?
K: If I'm not working in a spontaneous way, I get all tired of it. When I'm working from a completed draft, I start to think that it's all boring right in the middle of it, and my completed manuscript becomes a totally different story to the one from the draft. But when it's already drawn in pen, there's no way to correct it anymore, and there's nothing to do but give up.
- How do you work without making a draft?
K: I write the whole thing while doing pencil sketches in a rough shape, directly. So the pages before the punch line get very messy, and when I'm thinking about structuring it up, the balance of the whole becomes bad. (laugh)
- Isn't this way of drawing difficult when you have to produce 12 pages every time?
K: It's difficult, but you do get used to it. When I did "Kaizou", it was 16 pages every time, so I didn't get used to "Zetsubou-sensei" and its 12 pages for the longest time. I thought "am I already at 12 pages? That was quick." Recently I'm thinking, "it's sooo long," though. (laugh)
- Haven't there been times when you didn't use jokes you wanted to, because of this working style?
K: There have, but jokes aren't anything you can keep in stock anyway, so it can't be helped.
- When did you start using this working style?
K: I've been working like this since the latter half of "Yuke!! Nangoku Ice Hockey-bu."
- When did you first start drawing manga?
K: I did a 4-koma strip for a wall poster when I was in elementary school, but I started doing it properly when I was in my second year at university.
- So why did you want to start drawing manga as a university student, when you hadn't really been doing it before?
K: I liked to draw pictures. I even enrolled at Wako University because I wanted to become an art teacher. The reason was that my high school art teacher had this image of shutting himself away in the art equipment room, being all by himself, and not concerning himself with other people. (laugh) I joined up with a friend from a seminar, and we joined the manga club. And since I'd already joined, it was like "I guess I should try to draw something." And that was my cue to start drawing manga.
- What kind of manga were you drawing back then?
K: Sports manga. Stuff that was like "Nangoku" was in the beginning. "Nangoku" was a work I submitted for a contest, at first. It won, and it went straight into serialization, just as it was. At that time, I was seriously aiming for works like those of Adachi Mitsuru**. (laugh)
- Were you planning to write a proper ice hockey manga with "Nangoku"?
K: Of course I was. I researched ice hockey, had pictures taken from the cameraman's view; I always cut out articles from magazines. But in the middle of all that, I ended up not using the materials. (laugh) In the beginning I thought I was going to do a sort of vulgar youth sports comedy, but the sports gradually disappeared, and the vulgarity gradually came more and more to the fore…
- Why did the direction of the series change?
K: ... I can't remember. Among other things, I think it was on my editor's suggestion or something. But yeah, maybe my true colors really showed.
- Yes, "Nangoku" is a work with a lot of very vulgar dirty jokes.
K: I could probably write that because I was young. Now there are lots of those jokes I can't even speak of without feeling embarrassed. ... I've shut away the fact that I drew that kind of manga in the depths of my heart, so when people talk about it, it feels terrible.
- Well then, let's change the subject. (laugh) From "Kaizou" onward, the dirty jokes were concealed little by little, and the geeky jokes increased.
K: So they are geeky? I think I put in really easy-to-understand jokes though. ... Umm, come to think of it, I take bits and pieces of various works and joke around with them, so maybe there are places where it goes a little bit too deep.
- So when we look at the breadth of your jokes, we shouldn't assume that "he likes this!" whether it’s movies, manga or anime - it's more that you've come to read or watch stuff randomly?
K: I've never been deeply into anything, or felt "I'm obsessed with this." I think I've felt "I like this," in the past, but I don't remember.
- So rather than being someone who likes something for a long time, you are someone whose interests keep changing?
K: I have liked stuff for the moment, but then I distance myself from it for small reasons, and neglect it. And since I have no friends with similar interests, I have no opportunities to discuss it, and my memories of the thing I liked become fragmentary, maybe.
- Every chapter, the joke density is really high. I think it's so high you could write two chapters with the same material.
K: Really? Umm… I feel that it won't be enough if I don't put in lots. Because I have no confidence in my own work... I write with a joke density enough for two chapters, so that I will finally reach the level of one chapter for other mangaka.
- In an earlier interview, I read you said something like "my work doesn't need any sparks of inspiration."
K: There are no sparks. Because I'm not sparking.
- But I think that if you don't have that spark, you won't come up with jokes. Wouldn't you agree with that?
K: If you live your life every day, you'll most certainly happen upon unpleasant things. And I associate a variety of stuff with those unpleasant things, and make my stories. That's why there is no need for any spark of inspiration.
- You associate stuff with unpleasant things and make your stories?
K: When something unpleasant happens, I recall similar unpleasant incidents, one after another, if they happened in the past. And while doing this, I make my stories. Basically, they've all been forced out from the world... I've never needed to fight a little bit harder for them. Because the first part of coming up with the jokes is just the reality. I depart from there, and then I add on a little meat.
- So coming up with the jokes is like, BANG, and you just get to work?
K: No. It's more like, "this happened to me, so maybe I should draw it." Maybe if you could call things like that sparks of inspiration, I would be having them... Nah, it really feels like what I am having are not sparks of inspiration. I'm just referencing memories, or stuff that was on the news, and then I'm making jokes, but it's not anything like sparks at all. I'm really not sparking.
- Maybe you just have a strange way of working.
K: Haven't we all, to varying degrees during life, hit the wall and thought, "I'm such a failure?"
- I've sometimes heard other mangaka talking about hitting that wall and not being able to draw.
K: I can always draw, more or less, rather than doing that. Because there will always be at least one unpleasant thing happening to me every week.
- Do you have periods where you work quickly, and periods where you work slowly?
K: No. Basically, I'm always working until the very last second. I haven't been able to finish quickly for several years.
- But you haven't actually ever failed to deliver your manuscript, right?
K: Before I fail to deliver, I get a vacation. When it's getting a bit too close no matter how you think about it, my editor is considerate and gives me a vacation.
- I think it's fantastic that you've been drawing gag manga for over 15 years and always have delivered on time.
K: It's called "gag manga", but somewhere inside of me I've given up on gags. Like "I don't think this is a gag," or "I have no confidence that this is funny"? Gag mangaka are supposed to make the readers laugh. When I'm thinking about that, I can't draw anymore. "Is this funny?" I'm thinking; "Is it okay to have it this dark?"
- I think it's really funny.
K: I don't really like stuff like "this is fun, right, so laugh!" When it's like that, it's as if it turns totally boring.
- Do you dislike forced laughs?
K: ... I can't create them. I'm not "making people laugh", it's more like "having people laugh at me".
- I think there are many mangaka who use the fact that readers are enjoying their work, and laughing at their jokes, as motivation. How about you?
K: I don't even have the energy to think like that. I'm certain people go "pfft" or something when they read my stuff. I don't want to see people pick up my manga in the bookstore because of this.
- Maybe people who are standing and reading Magazine do that, but the people who pick up your manga in the book store like your stuff, so I don't think they're like that at all...
K: No, they just happen to pick it up accidentally. And then they happen to buy it accidentally, and go home and read it, and say "what is this!?" or something. I can easily picture that kind of reader.
- If you think like that, isn't your motivation very low all the time?
K: It is very low.
- So what motivates you to draw manga then?
K: Motivation isn't necessary. I think motivation is necessary for the people who are climbing to the top, but I'm just tumbling down the hill. I'm just using gravity as my motivation, something like that.
- In a way, that's like having an engine that never needs fuel. Doesn't that mean you'll continue to draw manga until you physically can't do it anymore?
K: I think there will come a time when I'm not wanted to draw anymore, but it feels like I will continue drawing forever, as long as there is a place for me to do it. ... I think I'll say something different again tomorrow, though. (laugh)
- At the end of your tankobon in the "Paper Blog", you write about various unpleasant things that happen in your everyday life.
K: On the whole, that's what my everyday life is like... My personality has become darker as the years have gone by; I think so too. In the past I still felt excited about things. I guess lots of complex-like things have been piling up.
- And that would for example be that you haven't received any manga awards?
K: Yes, I think that has become a complex... But yeah... how should I say this? If I got a manga award, I guess that would be unpleasant... I probably won't get one, though. (laugh)
- Maybe you won't be able to draw manga if good things keep on happening to you.
K: Mmm, yeah, maybe, but that really won't happen. It's unbelievable.
- Maybe you'll get an extremely positive personality. That would be trouble for you as a mangaka.
K: Yes, maybe. It has never happened before, so I don't know, though.
- Or you'd be drawing extremely positive manga instead.
K: It would be good if I could. Then I could get awards. Then I could have my work animated. And that is what I'm looking forward to in my next life.
- In your next life. (laugh) You used "Kaizou will never become an anime" as a joke many times.
K: Even now there have been talks about it being animated, but of course they have just come to nothing.
- Your manga style is like an essay, or a novel narrated in the first person, in regards to how you present the story. So rather than talking about jokes, aren't you writing about things that you yourself have felt?
K: ....Uh. If it has to be like something, maybe it's like that... This is difficult. Thinking about your own works, I mean… This has become sort of psychosomatic. Like I'm taking counseling. (laugh)
- "Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei" is often talked about on the internet, but have you ever looked at any of those impressions and reviews?
K: I'm not looking at them at all. I don't like it, regardless of whether they are praising me or saying that I suck.
- You don't like it even if they're praising you?
K: Hmm, well... even if they're praising me... umm... It's not like they're going to be praising me forever, you know? The day will come when they'll go "well, he sucks too," I'm sure of it.
- You don't have to look that far ahead. (laugh)
K: ... Everyone is looking down at me from above. It looks to them like I am the lowest of all mangaka. Aren't the impressions on the internet like that?
- No, they're not.
K: And also, even if people are praising me, I feel they aren't doing it 100%. I get letters from the readers, and they overwhelm me with praise, but then at the end they tack on a few remarks that feel bad. "I read your manga after I've read GetBackers" and stuff. It lets me down. If you are going that far to praise me, then shouldn't you read my manga first...? I don't understand the meaning of tacking on those phrases at the end.
- Isn't it something you write because you aren't really serious, or because you feel embarrassed?
K: ...No, I don't think so. I don't get the feeling that they intend to write it. I feel they do it naturally. So yeah, what is this kind of thing, really... And so the postcards criticising me pile up like a mountain.
- They are piling up like a mountain? (laugh)
K: "Why is that guy wearing glasses?" When they write things at that level you know they didn't like any of it. After all, I'm only getting letters because I'm a mangaka who is not highly valued...
- No, I think you're highly valued.
K: Valued for some small thing only, you mean?
- No, that's not what I mean. For example, if a middle school student were to read your manga, don't you have the ability to pass on insight on lots of things to that person?
K: So in short, you mean piercing insights? I'm not putting in any of those consciously. I can't just see through the facades or something... Hmmm... No, I can't... Even if I'm valued for some small thing, normally no one knows about me.
- You've been serialized in weekly manga magazines for 15 years, so don't you think that someone does?
K: No, it's like, why I am this unknown even though I've been serialized for a whole 15 years? My real name and my pen name are the same, and even though I normally use my real name when I'm writing down my address and stuff, only once have someone said "Are you Kumeta?" and that was a store clerk at Bic Camera.
- Maybe they're trying to not bother you?
K: It's not like that! ... But if I was noticed, I wouldn't like it though... At the same time as I think that no one ever would notice me, I'm becoming too self-conscious, and when I go to the hairdresser and stuff, I use the everyday-life name of Kubota.
- An everyday-life name? (laugh)
K: So when I get postcards from the hairdressers and others, there have been times when they've been for Kubota, not Kumeta.
- Normally you use a fake name as a pen name, and your real name in your personal life.
K: And I'm not even noticed anyway... I'm really too self-conscious.
- Do you say, "I'm a mangaka" at family gatherings and other similar situations?
K: I don't. In fact, it leaked out on a family gathering that I was a mangaka and I was forced to draw Sailor Moon. And at a friend's wedding -- I'm saying "friend" here, but they weren't really a friend -- I was playing this number guessing game, and even there they said, "draw Sailor Moon!" and I did it. I politely drew her. (laugh)
- Don't you like to be introduced as a mangaka?
K: I don't.
- Do you have any complexes regarding your profession?
K: No, I don't. ... If the titles of your works are famous, it's fine, but if they're not, you'll be asked, "so, what are you drawing?" And then if you answer with the title, the conversation will just end.
- Have you ever thought "I would like to try to do this kind of manga from now on"?
K: Let me think. ... Do I have to say something positive here?
- Just what you thought of saying is enough. (laugh)
K: Okay, well, no, not really.
- So it's not like "I'm giving all my power working with Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei now, so I don't know what happens next"?
K: Well, please write down that I said that... Because I'm not using all my power anyway. If I were to use all my power, I would lose the power I need to be reborn, so I'm working to the degree that there still will be power left for my next life... Even so, "DEATH NOTE" worried me. It's no joke, saying there is no next life. How are they going to make that up for me?
- There haven't been many mangaka before who keep saying only negative things in an interview.
K: I think they are all great, answering things properly in an interview... When I go to my publishing company's end-of-year party, my fellow mangaka are talking enthusiastically to each other about manga... I feel that I really don't want to talk about my own manga. Like calmly saying the names of characters I drew myself. Like "I drew ○○ with such and such in mind." I find it very embarrassing to say the names of my own characters.
- Yes, there are many mangaka who talk enthusiastically about their own works.
K: They can probably do it because they draw respectable stuff. So I guess I'm not yet reaching the level where I can talk about my manga. At the after-parties, it happens that several mangaka go to karaoke together, but instead of singing, they discuss manga. Once I felt I just couldn't stay and went to the game center below, and Nagai Ken*** was there. (laugh) There are more gloomy people among the gag mangaka than among the story mangaka.
- Yes, maybe that's true.
K: I do want to join in on those manga discussions. But I can neither make my point, nor respond to other people...
- But with the exception of those kinds of parties, do you talk to other mangaka about manga?
K: I don't. I meet mangaka at parties, and behave like a good buddy, that's about it. I don't have any mangaka friends, so I don't meet them privately either.
- At first I thought that you probably were going to say a few negative things, as part of the whole "Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei" humor, but this talk has really been consistently negative.
K: I'm not joking. It's not necessary for an author to be consistent with his works, you know. But the act of answering questions at an interview is in itself positive. Maybe I have a feeling inside of me of wanting to stand out...
- Then, please say a few words to the readers of Puff.
K: ...What should I say. Um. Puff... Readers... Let me think. Um. Would it be better if I said something positive?
- I'll leave that to you (laugh).
K: Although I'm getting fan letters, I'm thinking that my editors probably are writing them, and I'm thinking that there probably is some rich guy out there deceiving me by allowing my manga to be serialized in Magazine. Umm... Do you really think there are people reading my manga?
- I'm certain of it!
K: If I don't know the face or the background of the person I'm talking to, knowing what to say is hard. And I also don't know what they were doing reading this interview... Um. I'm certain the people reading this don't remember about the fourth volume of "Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei" either. In that case, there is an exciting new manga starting in Jump, so please go get carried away by that one...
- Thank you very much!
* Yuuka: Ex-gravure model, comedian, actor, voice actor, narrator... Real name: Okabe Hiroko.
** Adachi Mitsuru: Mangaka famous for sports manga. Kumeta has mentioned many times that this was what he was aiming to be.
*** Nagai Ken: Gag mangaka known mainly for "Shinsei Motemote Oukoku" (Holy Motemote Kingdom).
As always, thanks to sommeille.
"Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei" has an extremely rare flavor, so what kind of person could the author be? One day in June, he changed his busy schedule for us so we could visit him at his work place somewhere in the city. The place was a retro-style Japanese room. Cushions were laid out on the tatami, and Kumeta-sensei was sitting there in seiza position. Was he the same as Zetsubou-sensei!? With these never-ending surprises, we had to start asking questions immediately...
- In what way did the "Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei" project start? At first, we were surprised by your move from Weekly Shounen Sunday to Weekly Shounen Magazine.
K: After the serialization of "Katte ni Kaizou" ended, I had no confidence in coming up with a new work. It felt like people would say, "you're doing the same thing again!" if I had started a new serialization in Sunday. So I moved to Magazine.
- Was there a plan from the beginning to make "Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei" into what it is now?
K: No, from the beginning I was thinking of a serialization with more pages. It was a black comedy with the students at the center of the story, a little romantic comedy with the truant Hitou Nami as the heroine, and her partner, a boy who never went home from school. But the first chapter's page count became about 12 pages shorter than planned, so it didn't look like it the pacing of that plot would work well. I thought that if it were to be short, it would be better to make it catchier. And thinking about that, I put the teacher that I had planned for the project, a teacher who wanted to die, in focus. I was thinking, "Maybe I should draw something like "GTO." (laugh)
- When you compare "Zetsubou-sensei" to "Kaizou", it feels like the otaku jokes have decreased. Is that a conscious decision from your side?
K: Magazine has an image of being more of a magazine that adults read, if you compare it to Sunday. It has an image that normal people are reading it, so I thought I must use general jokes. I didn't think "it's better for me to be quiet about my time in Sunday" or anything like that, but more like: "isn't Magazine something that people - like, for instance, rappers, or bus drivers - are reading normally?"
- I get the impression that the video game jokes clearly have decreased. Is there any reason for that?
K: I think the fact that I myself have lost interest in video games is responsible. Back in the day when the Playstation and the Saturn just had come out on the market, I bought every single game that was released.
- Can't you take the time to play video games any more?
K: This is strange, but when I have free time, I don't think I play any video games, usually. Because games are fun to play in order to escape work.
- But you haven't stopped playing games, right?
K: No, I'm totally playing; especially sports games. I don't think my time playing those has decreased that much. But as I've gotten older RPG's have become harder to play. I've been thinking stuff like "why in the world do I have to do this?" as I'm doing fetch quests.
- In "Kaizou", you were attacking games with anime scenes in them.
K: The completion level for games as a whole has increased now, so there aren't really any games that are that boring in and of themselves anymore. And I think that is related too. Rather than saying that there isn't much to attack anymore... the things to attack today are different to the ones you would attack in the past, maybe.
- You're often making fun of manga serialized in other magazines, but won't you make any parodies of the manga serialized in Magazine? I think there were lots of people right in the beginning who thought that you would most certainly make fun of Akamatsu Ken.
K: ...It's because I was notified from somewhere that it's pretty much forbidden to make fun of other Magazine manga. (laugh) And I've gotten tired of messing around with other mangaka, and I would become a big joke behind the scenes here, like "he's really not doing this well." Also, since I'm not reading Magazine much, I'm thinking I should read some more first, and then pay back properly.
- So you're not reading Magazine?
K: Wouldn't you find it hard to read the magazine that your own manga is serialized in? I'm also doing my best to not get the magazine in my line of sight when I'm at convenience stores and stuff.
- Don't you check for your stuff when it appears in magazines?
K: I don't, I don't. I check the manuscripts before the manga is collected into tankobon, and that's about the only re-reading of my own manga I do. It's embarrassing, so I'm really doing my best to not look at it at all.
- I feel that the jokes about current events have increased recently.
K: Yeah... Jokes about current events will age very quickly, so I think it's a problem to have too many. It's happened that when I'm reading my own manga afterwards, even I don't understand what I meant anymore. But what you laugh about changes over time, and you'll abandon jokes anyway, so I'm also thinking, if you find something funny, use it.
- You often see Yuuka's* real name in the manga, at those places where people's names are written by hand.
K: Yes, we write everything by hand, even as minor as the addresses on postcards. I think the one writing that is my assistant, Maeda-kun. He's also writing names of people he's obsessing about. It's not really about having his obsessions spread, so much as something like, "oh, I like this now!" And then he writes it right away.
- There are lots of small jokes in the background, including those you just mentioned. Is it something you leave so you can let the readers search for them?
K: Yes, that's right. And I also put in a panty shot somewhere every time. When I'm finished making the manuscript, I make sure that it's there. Then I check that I've drawn Tsunetsuki Matoi, the stalker, somewhere once. I pay attention to these two things.
- Do you have any other rules like this?
K: At Sunday, there is punctuation in the speech bubbles, but not at Magazine. But Kitsu Chiri has a very precise personality, so I put punctuation in her lines. I don't think there are many people who notice this, though.
- You are portraying Fuura Kafuka as if she really has her head in the clouds, so do you think that positive people have that sort of image to them?
K: Yes. But it's the same both for positive and negative people. I think they circle around each other closely. Do you look at the phrase "I'll do my best in my next life" in a positive way, or a negative way? That's the difference.
- There are lots of characters appearing in the manga, but did you make them up from the beginning? Or later on, in accordance to what you're writing about?
K: I thought them up properly from the beginning. The number of them was more than enough, maybe. Since I'm having those characters appear in accordance to what I'm writing about, there are still characters that haven't appeared yet due to bad timing. (laugh)
- Do you have things that are easy to write about, or things that are hard to write about, because of the characters?
K: I assemble the characters so that whatever subject becomes easy to write about, so no.
- Do you feel stuff like "I'm bad with this kind of story development", or "this is hard to draw"?
K: Ummm, I'm bad with things like foreshadowing and making story developments that tug you along. I can't draw if I'm not thinking it's fun at the very moment I'm drawing it. I start to dislike what I'm doing if I've been planning the story development beforehand, so I'm not making any drafts.
- Eh? You're not making drafts?
K: If I'm not working in a spontaneous way, I get all tired of it. When I'm working from a completed draft, I start to think that it's all boring right in the middle of it, and my completed manuscript becomes a totally different story to the one from the draft. But when it's already drawn in pen, there's no way to correct it anymore, and there's nothing to do but give up.
- How do you work without making a draft?
K: I write the whole thing while doing pencil sketches in a rough shape, directly. So the pages before the punch line get very messy, and when I'm thinking about structuring it up, the balance of the whole becomes bad. (laugh)
- Isn't this way of drawing difficult when you have to produce 12 pages every time?
K: It's difficult, but you do get used to it. When I did "Kaizou", it was 16 pages every time, so I didn't get used to "Zetsubou-sensei" and its 12 pages for the longest time. I thought "am I already at 12 pages? That was quick." Recently I'm thinking, "it's sooo long," though. (laugh)
- Haven't there been times when you didn't use jokes you wanted to, because of this working style?
K: There have, but jokes aren't anything you can keep in stock anyway, so it can't be helped.
- When did you start using this working style?
K: I've been working like this since the latter half of "Yuke!! Nangoku Ice Hockey-bu."
- When did you first start drawing manga?
K: I did a 4-koma strip for a wall poster when I was in elementary school, but I started doing it properly when I was in my second year at university.
- So why did you want to start drawing manga as a university student, when you hadn't really been doing it before?
K: I liked to draw pictures. I even enrolled at Wako University because I wanted to become an art teacher. The reason was that my high school art teacher had this image of shutting himself away in the art equipment room, being all by himself, and not concerning himself with other people. (laugh) I joined up with a friend from a seminar, and we joined the manga club. And since I'd already joined, it was like "I guess I should try to draw something." And that was my cue to start drawing manga.
- What kind of manga were you drawing back then?
K: Sports manga. Stuff that was like "Nangoku" was in the beginning. "Nangoku" was a work I submitted for a contest, at first. It won, and it went straight into serialization, just as it was. At that time, I was seriously aiming for works like those of Adachi Mitsuru**. (laugh)
- Were you planning to write a proper ice hockey manga with "Nangoku"?
K: Of course I was. I researched ice hockey, had pictures taken from the cameraman's view; I always cut out articles from magazines. But in the middle of all that, I ended up not using the materials. (laugh) In the beginning I thought I was going to do a sort of vulgar youth sports comedy, but the sports gradually disappeared, and the vulgarity gradually came more and more to the fore…
- Why did the direction of the series change?
K: ... I can't remember. Among other things, I think it was on my editor's suggestion or something. But yeah, maybe my true colors really showed.
- Yes, "Nangoku" is a work with a lot of very vulgar dirty jokes.
K: I could probably write that because I was young. Now there are lots of those jokes I can't even speak of without feeling embarrassed. ... I've shut away the fact that I drew that kind of manga in the depths of my heart, so when people talk about it, it feels terrible.
- Well then, let's change the subject. (laugh) From "Kaizou" onward, the dirty jokes were concealed little by little, and the geeky jokes increased.
K: So they are geeky? I think I put in really easy-to-understand jokes though. ... Umm, come to think of it, I take bits and pieces of various works and joke around with them, so maybe there are places where it goes a little bit too deep.
- So when we look at the breadth of your jokes, we shouldn't assume that "he likes this!" whether it’s movies, manga or anime - it's more that you've come to read or watch stuff randomly?
K: I've never been deeply into anything, or felt "I'm obsessed with this." I think I've felt "I like this," in the past, but I don't remember.
- So rather than being someone who likes something for a long time, you are someone whose interests keep changing?
K: I have liked stuff for the moment, but then I distance myself from it for small reasons, and neglect it. And since I have no friends with similar interests, I have no opportunities to discuss it, and my memories of the thing I liked become fragmentary, maybe.
- Every chapter, the joke density is really high. I think it's so high you could write two chapters with the same material.
K: Really? Umm… I feel that it won't be enough if I don't put in lots. Because I have no confidence in my own work... I write with a joke density enough for two chapters, so that I will finally reach the level of one chapter for other mangaka.
- In an earlier interview, I read you said something like "my work doesn't need any sparks of inspiration."
K: There are no sparks. Because I'm not sparking.
- But I think that if you don't have that spark, you won't come up with jokes. Wouldn't you agree with that?
K: If you live your life every day, you'll most certainly happen upon unpleasant things. And I associate a variety of stuff with those unpleasant things, and make my stories. That's why there is no need for any spark of inspiration.
- You associate stuff with unpleasant things and make your stories?
K: When something unpleasant happens, I recall similar unpleasant incidents, one after another, if they happened in the past. And while doing this, I make my stories. Basically, they've all been forced out from the world... I've never needed to fight a little bit harder for them. Because the first part of coming up with the jokes is just the reality. I depart from there, and then I add on a little meat.
- So coming up with the jokes is like, BANG, and you just get to work?
K: No. It's more like, "this happened to me, so maybe I should draw it." Maybe if you could call things like that sparks of inspiration, I would be having them... Nah, it really feels like what I am having are not sparks of inspiration. I'm just referencing memories, or stuff that was on the news, and then I'm making jokes, but it's not anything like sparks at all. I'm really not sparking.
- Maybe you just have a strange way of working.
K: Haven't we all, to varying degrees during life, hit the wall and thought, "I'm such a failure?"
- I've sometimes heard other mangaka talking about hitting that wall and not being able to draw.
K: I can always draw, more or less, rather than doing that. Because there will always be at least one unpleasant thing happening to me every week.
- Do you have periods where you work quickly, and periods where you work slowly?
K: No. Basically, I'm always working until the very last second. I haven't been able to finish quickly for several years.
- But you haven't actually ever failed to deliver your manuscript, right?
K: Before I fail to deliver, I get a vacation. When it's getting a bit too close no matter how you think about it, my editor is considerate and gives me a vacation.
- I think it's fantastic that you've been drawing gag manga for over 15 years and always have delivered on time.
K: It's called "gag manga", but somewhere inside of me I've given up on gags. Like "I don't think this is a gag," or "I have no confidence that this is funny"? Gag mangaka are supposed to make the readers laugh. When I'm thinking about that, I can't draw anymore. "Is this funny?" I'm thinking; "Is it okay to have it this dark?"
- I think it's really funny.
K: I don't really like stuff like "this is fun, right, so laugh!" When it's like that, it's as if it turns totally boring.
- Do you dislike forced laughs?
K: ... I can't create them. I'm not "making people laugh", it's more like "having people laugh at me".
- I think there are many mangaka who use the fact that readers are enjoying their work, and laughing at their jokes, as motivation. How about you?
K: I don't even have the energy to think like that. I'm certain people go "pfft" or something when they read my stuff. I don't want to see people pick up my manga in the bookstore because of this.
- Maybe people who are standing and reading Magazine do that, but the people who pick up your manga in the book store like your stuff, so I don't think they're like that at all...
K: No, they just happen to pick it up accidentally. And then they happen to buy it accidentally, and go home and read it, and say "what is this!?" or something. I can easily picture that kind of reader.
- If you think like that, isn't your motivation very low all the time?
K: It is very low.
- So what motivates you to draw manga then?
K: Motivation isn't necessary. I think motivation is necessary for the people who are climbing to the top, but I'm just tumbling down the hill. I'm just using gravity as my motivation, something like that.
- In a way, that's like having an engine that never needs fuel. Doesn't that mean you'll continue to draw manga until you physically can't do it anymore?
K: I think there will come a time when I'm not wanted to draw anymore, but it feels like I will continue drawing forever, as long as there is a place for me to do it. ... I think I'll say something different again tomorrow, though. (laugh)
- At the end of your tankobon in the "Paper Blog", you write about various unpleasant things that happen in your everyday life.
K: On the whole, that's what my everyday life is like... My personality has become darker as the years have gone by; I think so too. In the past I still felt excited about things. I guess lots of complex-like things have been piling up.
- And that would for example be that you haven't received any manga awards?
K: Yes, I think that has become a complex... But yeah... how should I say this? If I got a manga award, I guess that would be unpleasant... I probably won't get one, though. (laugh)
- Maybe you won't be able to draw manga if good things keep on happening to you.
K: Mmm, yeah, maybe, but that really won't happen. It's unbelievable.
- Maybe you'll get an extremely positive personality. That would be trouble for you as a mangaka.
K: Yes, maybe. It has never happened before, so I don't know, though.
- Or you'd be drawing extremely positive manga instead.
K: It would be good if I could. Then I could get awards. Then I could have my work animated. And that is what I'm looking forward to in my next life.
- In your next life. (laugh) You used "Kaizou will never become an anime" as a joke many times.
K: Even now there have been talks about it being animated, but of course they have just come to nothing.
- Your manga style is like an essay, or a novel narrated in the first person, in regards to how you present the story. So rather than talking about jokes, aren't you writing about things that you yourself have felt?
K: ....Uh. If it has to be like something, maybe it's like that... This is difficult. Thinking about your own works, I mean… This has become sort of psychosomatic. Like I'm taking counseling. (laugh)
- "Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei" is often talked about on the internet, but have you ever looked at any of those impressions and reviews?
K: I'm not looking at them at all. I don't like it, regardless of whether they are praising me or saying that I suck.
- You don't like it even if they're praising you?
K: Hmm, well... even if they're praising me... umm... It's not like they're going to be praising me forever, you know? The day will come when they'll go "well, he sucks too," I'm sure of it.
- You don't have to look that far ahead. (laugh)
K: ... Everyone is looking down at me from above. It looks to them like I am the lowest of all mangaka. Aren't the impressions on the internet like that?
- No, they're not.
K: And also, even if people are praising me, I feel they aren't doing it 100%. I get letters from the readers, and they overwhelm me with praise, but then at the end they tack on a few remarks that feel bad. "I read your manga after I've read GetBackers" and stuff. It lets me down. If you are going that far to praise me, then shouldn't you read my manga first...? I don't understand the meaning of tacking on those phrases at the end.
- Isn't it something you write because you aren't really serious, or because you feel embarrassed?
K: ...No, I don't think so. I don't get the feeling that they intend to write it. I feel they do it naturally. So yeah, what is this kind of thing, really... And so the postcards criticising me pile up like a mountain.
- They are piling up like a mountain? (laugh)
K: "Why is that guy wearing glasses?" When they write things at that level you know they didn't like any of it. After all, I'm only getting letters because I'm a mangaka who is not highly valued...
- No, I think you're highly valued.
K: Valued for some small thing only, you mean?
- No, that's not what I mean. For example, if a middle school student were to read your manga, don't you have the ability to pass on insight on lots of things to that person?
K: So in short, you mean piercing insights? I'm not putting in any of those consciously. I can't just see through the facades or something... Hmmm... No, I can't... Even if I'm valued for some small thing, normally no one knows about me.
- You've been serialized in weekly manga magazines for 15 years, so don't you think that someone does?
K: No, it's like, why I am this unknown even though I've been serialized for a whole 15 years? My real name and my pen name are the same, and even though I normally use my real name when I'm writing down my address and stuff, only once have someone said "Are you Kumeta?" and that was a store clerk at Bic Camera.
- Maybe they're trying to not bother you?
K: It's not like that! ... But if I was noticed, I wouldn't like it though... At the same time as I think that no one ever would notice me, I'm becoming too self-conscious, and when I go to the hairdresser and stuff, I use the everyday-life name of Kubota.
- An everyday-life name? (laugh)
K: So when I get postcards from the hairdressers and others, there have been times when they've been for Kubota, not Kumeta.
- Normally you use a fake name as a pen name, and your real name in your personal life.
K: And I'm not even noticed anyway... I'm really too self-conscious.
- Do you say, "I'm a mangaka" at family gatherings and other similar situations?
K: I don't. In fact, it leaked out on a family gathering that I was a mangaka and I was forced to draw Sailor Moon. And at a friend's wedding -- I'm saying "friend" here, but they weren't really a friend -- I was playing this number guessing game, and even there they said, "draw Sailor Moon!" and I did it. I politely drew her. (laugh)
- Don't you like to be introduced as a mangaka?
K: I don't.
- Do you have any complexes regarding your profession?
K: No, I don't. ... If the titles of your works are famous, it's fine, but if they're not, you'll be asked, "so, what are you drawing?" And then if you answer with the title, the conversation will just end.
- Have you ever thought "I would like to try to do this kind of manga from now on"?
K: Let me think. ... Do I have to say something positive here?
- Just what you thought of saying is enough. (laugh)
K: Okay, well, no, not really.
- So it's not like "I'm giving all my power working with Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei now, so I don't know what happens next"?
K: Well, please write down that I said that... Because I'm not using all my power anyway. If I were to use all my power, I would lose the power I need to be reborn, so I'm working to the degree that there still will be power left for my next life... Even so, "DEATH NOTE" worried me. It's no joke, saying there is no next life. How are they going to make that up for me?
- There haven't been many mangaka before who keep saying only negative things in an interview.
K: I think they are all great, answering things properly in an interview... When I go to my publishing company's end-of-year party, my fellow mangaka are talking enthusiastically to each other about manga... I feel that I really don't want to talk about my own manga. Like calmly saying the names of characters I drew myself. Like "I drew ○○ with such and such in mind." I find it very embarrassing to say the names of my own characters.
- Yes, there are many mangaka who talk enthusiastically about their own works.
K: They can probably do it because they draw respectable stuff. So I guess I'm not yet reaching the level where I can talk about my manga. At the after-parties, it happens that several mangaka go to karaoke together, but instead of singing, they discuss manga. Once I felt I just couldn't stay and went to the game center below, and Nagai Ken*** was there. (laugh) There are more gloomy people among the gag mangaka than among the story mangaka.
- Yes, maybe that's true.
K: I do want to join in on those manga discussions. But I can neither make my point, nor respond to other people...
- But with the exception of those kinds of parties, do you talk to other mangaka about manga?
K: I don't. I meet mangaka at parties, and behave like a good buddy, that's about it. I don't have any mangaka friends, so I don't meet them privately either.
- At first I thought that you probably were going to say a few negative things, as part of the whole "Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei" humor, but this talk has really been consistently negative.
K: I'm not joking. It's not necessary for an author to be consistent with his works, you know. But the act of answering questions at an interview is in itself positive. Maybe I have a feeling inside of me of wanting to stand out...
- Then, please say a few words to the readers of Puff.
K: ...What should I say. Um. Puff... Readers... Let me think. Um. Would it be better if I said something positive?
- I'll leave that to you (laugh).
K: Although I'm getting fan letters, I'm thinking that my editors probably are writing them, and I'm thinking that there probably is some rich guy out there deceiving me by allowing my manga to be serialized in Magazine. Umm... Do you really think there are people reading my manga?
- I'm certain of it!
K: If I don't know the face or the background of the person I'm talking to, knowing what to say is hard. And I also don't know what they were doing reading this interview... Um. I'm certain the people reading this don't remember about the fourth volume of "Sayonara Zetsubou-sensei" either. In that case, there is an exciting new manga starting in Jump, so please go get carried away by that one...
- Thank you very much!
* Yuuka: Ex-gravure model, comedian, actor, voice actor, narrator... Real name: Okabe Hiroko.
** Adachi Mitsuru: Mangaka famous for sports manga. Kumeta has mentioned many times that this was what he was aiming to be.
*** Nagai Ken: Gag mangaka known mainly for "Shinsei Motemote Oukoku" (Holy Motemote Kingdom).
As always, thanks to sommeille.