Posing as an academic for a change

[zenkatsuo]

I haven't written a proper rambling entry in a long while. Likely because I've been hung up about homework and bidding on auctions every single night for the past God knows how long. Like all my entries after a while in posting, this one too is about nothing that's actually happened. Nothing much happens to me anyway.

Recently I read this comment

Comments

[chrysa]

Well look, I'll get to that shit later.

Haha, nice pun? In Under Grand Hotel, there was a small mention of it, when one of the prisoners tried to rape the... main character. (Wow, I forgot his name. Fail.)

In more cases than not, in yaoi, the anus has always been a surrogate vagina. The physicality of vaginal intercourse in missionary position really can't be duplicated with anal sex in gay men. Which, in the crudest, most graphic possible description, is basically that the anus and vagina aren't located on the same part of the body, hint hint yaoi manga writers. *facepalm*

I guess it's a little bizarre to me that they're bothered by something that's trite in comparison other things wrong with yaoi. =\

I don't... really have anything else to add that's not off-topic.

[zenkatsuo]

I rather think the anus is never anything but a surrogate vagina in BL. It's just kinda frustrating to try and explain some very rare instances where this explanation seems awkward. And those are really few and far between. But really, I think that's the whole point of it, that it's actually female sexuality acted out with male bodies. I have read gay porn written by and aimed at gay men, and it certainly doesn't have the same appeal (while I'm not saying it's without appeal). So the fact that so many BL readers seem to be so blind as to go on thinking for years and years that the authors are morons who have no idea how men fuck makes me very very frustrated. It doesn't take a fucking rocket scientist to figure it out

[chrysa]

Well, yaoi is predominantly written by and for women. There are a few exceptions to that, but even when male mangaka write yaoi, I feel like there is something... off about it. Presuming they're straight and have not had gay sex or something

[zenkatsuo]

Mm, sorry, I got used to using the term yaoi in reference to noncommercial works, i.e. doujinshi, in my BA work, so now I have trouble using it to refer to commercial works. Actually, appears that the Japanese themselves have no clear picture on how to differentiate between the referents of the two terms. I took my cues on the fact that yaoi was originally coined to refer to fandom generated works. But of course, at the time, there was no commercial equivalent... I guess in The States people generally think yaoi refers to "the hard stuff" and BL is the translation for shounen'ai

[chrysa]

I'm aware that yaoi is a term that originated from describing doujinshi, but in the Western BL fandom's conscience, it primarily describes manga (and doujinshi) works produced by mangaka (doujinshika) that run in phonebook mangazines and/or are self-published etc. I can't speak for how fandom thinks of the term "BL" but in my mind, it's a generally encompassing term. So I think of the fanart on Pixiv, the trashy RPS fanfiction I'm reading, and Japanese published "yaoi" all as BL, but yaoi as something more specific. But that's only in my own mind...

What I mean by glorified is that, a lot of women who read shoujo are really against ... shoujo (used in this sense as Yuu Watase-style of shoujo). But yaoi is like... if you're a woman who hates women's shoes, and some company is like, "Yeah, we hate shoes too! We understand everything you dislike about them, and have made shoes to cater to your needs." So it's like, shoes for women who hate women's shoes. But ultimately, they're still shoes for women - just women who hate shoes. Don't I

[zenkatsuo]

Well, using yaoi in reference to print media and BL as an umbrella term to refer to mixed media products like games, drama cds, as well as print media certainly feels more logical and less contrived. I think I remember now hearing of it before, so maybe it's not just you. ...Or maybe I'm just remembering the last time we've discussed the subject.

Indeed, your analogies are marvelous. A fact I've noted before. I guess I should look into more about the relationship between shoujo and yaoi, and the relationship yaoi readers have with shoujo. Probably the attitude toward shoujo will be different in the West than in Japan, since the Japanese have access to a wider selection of shoujo and not just the generic shoujo that ends up being licensed in the West.

Isn't it strange though, how the fans of yaoi (the Western fans at least) seem to be motivated by a dislike of shoujo, yet so many of them have complaints about yaoi. So what's the problem with shoujo if yaoi's still better? Girls instead of ukes?