Question about AO3's Major Character Death tag

[elen_nare]

This actually goes beyond my current yuletide fic, because this tag has puzzled me for a while.

A fic in which a canon major character features prominently and where they die, should clearly be tagged, because they're a major character in both the canon and the fic. But what happens when major characters in canon are minor ones in a fic, or vice-

Comments

[andelendir]

Which means it makes sense to warn rather more than less on such a tacky subject.

It's not as if we were talking about warning about candlelight dinners (which are really unlikely to be a trigger to a significant amount of people.

Character deaths (major or otherwise) are detested by a large number of people for a rather broad spread of reasons. Those can range from being exasperated by cheap writing (death being far too often an overused trope to create insta-tragic-tears-emotions) and end at the other end of the scale, with people like me who almost go incapable of managing to stay functional (at all or within that fandom).

And I disagree. With things like rape, violence, abuse or death warnings cease to be just personal takes on what you believe about others. You enter far into the realm of "yes, this *will* trigger a significant subsection of my potential readers" instead. If you add squicking to the equation there's no question left about this. None at all. So no, it's really insight and knowledge instead of assumption. What is an assumption is thinking any of these major reasons for warnings have a demarcation line where they won't trigger enough people to warn.

I just wrote a story containing violence in relation to hate crimes. I can read any level of that, I even think most of such content doesn't trigger. But I *know* that a significant amount of people potentially drawn to that story also may have been the victims of exactly such hate crimes. I personally know people who were and who would trigger on such content. There's no "I think" involved. Same goes for death, abuse or rape, you'd have to be brandnew on the internet not to have come across people who quite clearly state they are triggered by such content, on any level.

[pinkpolarity]

How is character death a tacky subject? /completely confused

[andelendir]

Because one can be triggered by reading character death scenes. Just as people quite often get triggered by rape scenes, or abuse scenes or scenes of violence.

These kind of scenes are tacky because quite a lot of because get triggered by them. That's for instance not the case for a scene describing how the MC cooks a potato soup.

Usually the most important kinds of potentially problematic scenes are

- (Character) Death
- Violence
- Underage Sexuality (with adults)
- Rape
- Abuse

These are pretty certain triggers for people having experienced one of these in a bad way and suffering from PTSD for instance. Additionaly any of these also is very often a major squick.

[andelendir]

I need a new keyboard...

[pinkpolarity]

I understand why these are problematic scenes, I'm merely confused by your use of the word "tacky". It sounds like you mean these scenes are *tricky*, not tacky. Tacky means something that's tawdry, uncouth, or vulgar, and I can't figure how character death fits that. I think you've got the wrong word.

[andelendir]

Nope, that's quite what I meant.

Tacky, sordid or uncouth when not warned for. Nasty (tacky) behaviour and scenes when sprung upon the unwary potentially triggering reader on purpose (which is what you do when you don't warn).

[cousinshelley]

I don't read stories with major character deaths. I do understand where you're coming from.

But someone new to fan fiction and fandom in general may not even realize a great deal of what's expected by some readers when it comes to warnings. They would not be triggering someone on purpose.

[andelendir]

Yes, I agree, and in general I really do not mean those who just came into fanfiction and don't realise these things are much wanted by people who trigger.

It's more in reference to people who know quite alright that they ought to warn, but don't because they have some curious idea about how much better their fic will be when readers do not know a death will occur, who can't be bothered in general or who simply slap a "not warning" tag onto their fic and by doing that bar people like me from reading perfectly readable fics and/or forcing me into chancing things.

I'm probably not telling *you* something new, but there's no point in ceasing to read when you realise someone is going to die (or be raped or abused or beaten up or used sexually underage). That's not how it works, when you know what will take place you already are triggered. And depending on how badly you get triggered you then are incapacitated, potentially for quite some time. It's really unfunny and hence my reaction and judgement regarding those who care less about others.

*shrug*

It's a bore and I wish people would realise how bad it can be and understand that warning really helps.

[cousinshelley]

After reading this thread, I went back and added a tag to a treat a wrote last year for original/minor character death. It did not occur to me--and I've been in fandom for a long, long time--that having a minor, original character appear and quickly die without much fanfare might trigger anyone. It honestly did not. I guess because it doesn't bother me, but more than that, because it is so very minor. It takes nothing from me to take the second to add the tag, but I didn't even consider it might be necessary--and I don't read major character death because it bothers me too much.

I guess--and please don't think this is snarky or defensive because you can't hear my tone or see my face; it's not--I don't understand how something like the passing mention of a dead character or something so minor can trigger someone. Not understanding is no excuse, I'll be the first to admit. I am genuinely curious if you only read fanfiction, or how you deal with original short stories and novels, since those things don't have warnings. Do you avoid that kind of reading (or movies or television) altogether to keep from being triggered, or do you go by recommendations of people who know your triggers and can steer you in the right direction?

[andelendir]

I wished I could explain it easily, but I do not always trigger, nor always the same way, and it is not even consistent with the same character(s) killed but by different writers. That's part of the problem.

Another is that for you a character is only minor and maybe it plays an even smaller roll in your fic than in canon, but for me it might be someone I love as a character, or someone important to me in a way. It's simply not possible for the author to tell ahead. That's why I said slap them on regardless.

I.e. generally I have the biggest problems with fandoms where a lot of the actors are dead already, so I have to "work" at keeping the character the actor played "alive" in my mind. That's a bit like walking out onto very thin ice. So when then someone comes along and "kills" the character I sink like a stone, because it was sort of me who kept him/her actively alive, I was responsible in a way, and that makes me also kind of responsible for them completely dying now. Sounds quite weird, I know. Unfortunately my brain makes sense out of that and not in a nice way.

In general I try to avoid stories of any sort (any medium) which rely on death as emotional plotpoints. Those are worst, because they never work for me, at all. I can deal better with deaths which have a realistic "sensible" reason. But yes, I tend to avoid tearjerkers. The ultimate horror story for me for example is not something like Hellraiser, it would be Tolstoi's Kholstomer (Strider)... go figure ;-)

I usually ask when unsure, but yes, when I see people tag and warn I do expect them to tag for death.

[cousinshelley]

So when then someone comes along and "kills" the character I sink like a stone, because it was sort of me who kept him/her actively alive, I was responsible in a way, and that makes me also kind of responsible for them completely dying now. Sounds quite weird, I know. Unfortunately my brain makes sense out of that and not in a nice way.

I understand this type of thinking more than you might guess. I have OCD (and I don't mean I'm "a little OCD" as some people like to say). I mean I have it, or rather it has me, which I think is more accurate. That taking responsibility for certain things is an issue for many people with OCD, so I can completely see where you're coming from.

[pinkpolarity]

Ah, okay. I see where you're coming from, although I don't think most people do it on purpose.

[cousinshelley]

Eh, don't be confused. Tacky is an adjective of opinion, that's all. I find my mother-in-law's curtains tacky; she thinks they're swell. :)