Hell, Etc
I would have made this in video form, but my present illness makes it impossible for me to speak for long without either retching or gasping for breath, neither of which makes for a pleasant video.
I've been arguing occasionally with a chap on Youtube called Question Christ. For anyone who doesn't know, my name on there is Steeleperfect (a reference, incidentally to the enduring perfection of Remington Steele).
Those who know me know that I rarely quote the Bible. This isn't because I don't love the Bible, but because I believe that it is wrong to give any book more prominence than the living God. I tend to talk about biblical matters most with my soul's sister, wonderful Lee, whose life is anchored firmly in the living God and who shows His grace in all that she does and, conversely, with fundamentalists, who reject the living God and will not communicate in any way but through their magical book. When a person cannot speak my language, I must try to communicate with them in their own.
I rarely try to convert others, either. In fact, you're safe from all my conversion attempts if your religion isn't hurting you or another and if you don't try to convert me. In the case of fundamentalists, both often apply. I have seen fundamentalists urge violence against children, humiliation of women and even divinely sanctioned murder and incest. None of these are good things.
Question Christ is, or seems to be, an intelligent and sane fundamentalist. Although a hell-wisher, he is not as vindictive about it as many are and I am sure that his heart is in the right place. He does deny the goodness of God and the goodness of God's creation and does place the book above God in all that he says, but he does not seek to portray himself as a prophet or to gain personal power through his theology and so I respect him, although I will never share his wholly negative view of God.
God has a way of leaping into the lives of people like that, so I haven't given up all hope of him finding God for himself and so I make no attempt to convert him. However, he does preach false doctrine and offer a view of God likely to drive others away from Christianity, so I must argue with him.
There is no mention of Hell in the Bible, never has been. Jesus, whom Question Christ accuses of talking about it more than anything else, never mentioned it.
Anyone worried by the assertions about Hell made by fundamentalists should go to tentmaker.org where people with a deeper understanding of theology explain that God is love. Always remember that in most fundamentalist churches, thinking for yourself is a great sin. Ever wondered why?
Question Christ mentioned that I've never explicitly stated I am a universalist. He is quite right in assuming that I am. I never state it for the same reason that I never go up to people and say, "Hello, I'm female." To me, the term "Christian" declares me a universalist and I have never been able to understand how anyone who believes in the God I know could imagine Him to be so monstrously evil as to condemn people eternally or why anyone who considered Him so evil could continue to worship Him, unless out of fear.
The trouble is that fear and love are mutually exclusive. One cannot both fear and love God. Those who consider Him a monster fear Him, those who do not, love Him.
Now, in denying the universal love of God, Question Christ opposes, first Christ, who preached universalism, then the whole host of wise church fathers, Origen, St Jerome, Gregory of Nyssa, Athanasius, Clement of Alexandria and Theophilus of Antioch.
The question that always bothers me is why? Why do people need to believe that others are irredeemably damned? Why does a man who seems to have so little hatred in him still need to feel that he is saved and another is not? From whence did he learn this theology of an evil god eternally torturing people who never had a choice not to sin? I know part of the source, of course, the heretic Augustine, who needed an excuse for his sexual sins and decided to blame God. But why has Augustine's heresy lasted so long? What is it in mankind that desires another to suffer?
I've been arguing occasionally with a chap on Youtube called Question Christ. For anyone who doesn't know, my name on there is Steeleperfect (a reference, incidentally to the enduring perfection of Remington Steele).
Those who know me know that I rarely quote the Bible. This isn't because I don't love the Bible, but because I believe that it is wrong to give any book more prominence than the living God. I tend to talk about biblical matters most with my soul's sister, wonderful Lee, whose life is anchored firmly in the living God and who shows His grace in all that she does and, conversely, with fundamentalists, who reject the living God and will not communicate in any way but through their magical book. When a person cannot speak my language, I must try to communicate with them in their own.
I rarely try to convert others, either. In fact, you're safe from all my conversion attempts if your religion isn't hurting you or another and if you don't try to convert me. In the case of fundamentalists, both often apply. I have seen fundamentalists urge violence against children, humiliation of women and even divinely sanctioned murder and incest. None of these are good things.
Question Christ is, or seems to be, an intelligent and sane fundamentalist. Although a hell-wisher, he is not as vindictive about it as many are and I am sure that his heart is in the right place. He does deny the goodness of God and the goodness of God's creation and does place the book above God in all that he says, but he does not seek to portray himself as a prophet or to gain personal power through his theology and so I respect him, although I will never share his wholly negative view of God.
God has a way of leaping into the lives of people like that, so I haven't given up all hope of him finding God for himself and so I make no attempt to convert him. However, he does preach false doctrine and offer a view of God likely to drive others away from Christianity, so I must argue with him.
There is no mention of Hell in the Bible, never has been. Jesus, whom Question Christ accuses of talking about it more than anything else, never mentioned it.
Anyone worried by the assertions about Hell made by fundamentalists should go to tentmaker.org where people with a deeper understanding of theology explain that God is love. Always remember that in most fundamentalist churches, thinking for yourself is a great sin. Ever wondered why?
Question Christ mentioned that I've never explicitly stated I am a universalist. He is quite right in assuming that I am. I never state it for the same reason that I never go up to people and say, "Hello, I'm female." To me, the term "Christian" declares me a universalist and I have never been able to understand how anyone who believes in the God I know could imagine Him to be so monstrously evil as to condemn people eternally or why anyone who considered Him so evil could continue to worship Him, unless out of fear.
The trouble is that fear and love are mutually exclusive. One cannot both fear and love God. Those who consider Him a monster fear Him, those who do not, love Him.
Now, in denying the universal love of God, Question Christ opposes, first Christ, who preached universalism, then the whole host of wise church fathers, Origen, St Jerome, Gregory of Nyssa, Athanasius, Clement of Alexandria and Theophilus of Antioch.
The question that always bothers me is why? Why do people need to believe that others are irredeemably damned? Why does a man who seems to have so little hatred in him still need to feel that he is saved and another is not? From whence did he learn this theology of an evil god eternally torturing people who never had a choice not to sin? I know part of the source, of course, the heretic Augustine, who needed an excuse for his sexual sins and decided to blame God. But why has Augustine's heresy lasted so long? What is it in mankind that desires another to suffer?