(Untitled)

[ysabel]

I am very pro-sex (yeah, I know, all of you are going, Duh!) and, at least in theory, pro-legalized-prostitution. I also believe that prostitution as it currently stands is very harmful, but I'd had a lot of trouble sorting out how to make that concrete, because it's not just that it's illegal.

ginmar posted on the subject, and her post and the threads

Comments

[ysabel]

Overall, I think you're describing something much closer to the ideal than what I believe really happens in most prostitution transactions. Go read through ginmar's post and possibly some of the threads under it; for various reasons I think she's got the normative case pegged.

I would also argue that the scenario you describe doesn't necessarily look like a typical service transaction.

I've had that pointed out over there as well. It is what a normal service transaction involves in my world, though. I'm fairly picky about who I allow to touch me/get physically close to me. (Which isn't to say that there aren't lots of people who can meet my requirements or that I'm not touchy-feely, but that I do require a certain level of intimacy for that.)

I don't understand the notion that it dehumanizes women to be paid for sex.

That's not the assertion, IMHO. It dehumanizes women to be dehumanized by men who treat them as just an object to fuck; prostitution as it normally happens is just one example of that dynamic. (Seriously, this is way better covered over in ginmar's journal.)

The question I wanted to ask was, "If you could remove the sexism and dehumanization from the picture, is there still an issue with selling sexual services?" I don't believe the sexism and dehumanization is inherent or that would be a nonsensical question in the first place. (I believe the answer is "no", btw, but I don't think it's necessarily that simple, either.)

What does prostitution look like to you, then?

To grab the paragraph after the one I quoted:Most prostitution is some man paying some woman to let him stick his dick in her snatch. I put it that crudely because, as far as I can tell, it's the only way to be accurate. Notice the difference in who's active and who has the power and the lack of any real requirement for (mutual) trust, respect or friendship.
Performing specific sex acts is skilled labour of sorts, not a passive access-acceptance. I honestly don't understand why you would consider prostitution not to be paying for time and effort.

Because I don't believe that most prostitution is about performing specific sex acts. (See above.) It should be, but I don't believe that it usually is.

[ysabel]

In the most generic sense, it doesn't.

However, some of the things you've listed (massage, medical treatment, house cleaning, hair cutting) do involve either touching me or getting physically close to me. And for those things, I tend to need to hold those providers to a higher standard, or I don't end up getting service that I'm comfortable with. That's all I was getting at.

Unrelated

[ysabel]

I don't recall if I've asked this yet. I know I've thought it several times, at least...

Way back when, I knew a D! on, IIRC, alt.sex.bondage and related places. I don't suppose this is the same dbang? *grin*