I don't even know anymore /headdesk

[youcallitwinter]

Comments

Pt. 1

[youcallitwinter]

They have a great chemistry together, and everyone has chemistry with everyone else in this cast.

IS THIS TRUE OR WHAT. How does this cast even exist? It’s like they put Bonnie and Alaric into one scene together and WHAM- chemistry.

Except for poor Matt where chemistry goes to die.

Hee, I concur, yes.

For me there is no one single reason that motivates his desire to help Caroline.

Exactly, for me it stems from who Stefan is as a person. He genuinely cares that much and he would do it for a whole host of reasons. He tried to calm Vicki down as well, to help her, which is fantastic and then he had to stake her himself. And I imagine he wouldn’t want that to happen to Caroline, even if only because she’s Elena’s friends. I love that their friendship grew, it didn’t always exist.

I also think the audience is predisposed to sympathize with Caroline over Elena.

In my opinion, this is true now. Now there’s a general tendency in fandom that everything Caroline does is sunshine and rainbows. There is also this awful, inexplicable tendency to hate on Elena for no particular reason. But I do remember this wasn’t always the case. Pretty much the majority of fandom intensely disliked Caroline when the show started, and it’s not hard to see why. It’s not only that Caroline was the second choice always (which possible would make her sympathetic), it was because she told Elena that the reason she wasn’t good at cheerleading was that her parents’ death had made her miss cheer camp, and then she was bitchy to her about the sexy car wash or whatever, and she was generally remarkably insensitive. In most first season fics I read, Caroline is always portrayed as this horrible loud-mouthed character always trying to steal Elena’s boyfriends.

Pt. 2

[youcallitwinter]

It doesn't matter that she feels like she killed her parents, and doesn't even own her own face. It doesn't matter that Elena never seems to take pleasure in Caroline's insecurity or even feed it except for just existing. All some viewers will see is a girl who gets two handsome brothers showing interest in her while Caroline gets to feel second place to Elena in her relationship with Matt.

That’s a very good point. And it’s pretty true; it’s ridiculous but a large part of fandom hates on Elena JUST because she has these two beautiful boys in love with her, all just terribly misogynistic. But this also, imo, wasn’t always the case. I think why those things might not matter to most people is that they can’t relate to it on a personal level. Most people don’t feel like they’ve killed their parents, but most people DO feel jealous of that one girl who always seems to get all the boys. But then they’d also hate to be known as that person who’s jealous and insecure, so human!Caroline automatically gets hated on.

I think the best thing about Elena is that she isn’t particularly remarkable. Like, I wouldn’t put her above Bonnie or Caroline or anyone in bravery or sacrifice or looks or anything; I love all of them pretty equally. And that’s where her tragedy is, that her face isn’t her own, which is why those boys got interested in the first place. Not her, but her face (initially, I mean). And that all these things she has to handle are through no fault of hers. And I love that. Had she been the Best Person Ever and had all these really good personality traits and been a complete martyr on the altar of self sacrifice or something, I would’ve hated the character. But she isn’t. She has her moments of doubts, or horrible ideas, of stubbornness and it is glorious.

She knows that he still has feelings for Elena. He was honest about his conflicting feelings for Elena and never lead her on, but she still chased after him anyways. I would think she would want nothing to do with him because of her giant insecurities about Elena. It seemed like Caroline wanted to use Matt to somehow best Elena.

Haha, this is exactly what makes Caroline such a realistic character for me. She knows he likes Elena, but she still goes after him, and she’s still hurt because she thought that if he came to know her better he would like her more, and he just doesn’t. [Also, he’s terrible to her, he just is, ugh]. Although I personally think Damon was about besting Elena and she genuinely liked Matt, but I can see why, like I can understand wanting to best your best friend or going after a guy who doesn’t like you. It’s not nice, of course, but it’s real. Not everyone is nice, everyone has these horrible insecure moments, everyone makes really wrong choices, and sometimes people are insensitive and Caroline is pretty much all that, which is why I love her so much.

Re: Pt. 2

[youcallitwinter]

Yeah, apart from being disproportionately gorgeous (heh), they're pretty much just teenage girls. And Bonnie/Elena/Caroline moments just reaffirm that (I'd love to see what happened at the Daddy Issues slumber party!)

I'm not sure if people who view Elena as lucky to have the attention of Damon and Stefan really understand how creepy it is that she looks like the woman they both fell in love with over a hundred something years ago.

Oh god, that. And all the people who argue that it isn't transference at all are clearly delusional. Elena first got noticed because of her face, and her face is why she's a tragic character. It's something she didn't ask for, but she has to deal with. And even the men who are in love with her (and frighteningly keep using terms like "forever" and "always" and "never", which are creepy all on their own, if she doesn't want that) weren't always just in love with her. I haven't been in the GG fandom, so I'm not sure about the S/B dynamic (although I did read all the books long ago), but there's a general perception in fandom that vampire!Caroline >>>>> human!Caroline and that as a human she was 'annoying' and 'shallow'. It just makes me :s because seriously what the hell does shallow even mean? And how many teenage girls in this world are 'deep as the abyss' anyway?

Oh, I have REAL issues with Matt/Caroline all around. I have major issues with his constant apologism for liking Caroline and constant need to justify his relationship. Like he was the better person condescending down to her level. And how he mostly just went to her when he'd been implicitly rejected by Elena.

Re: Pt. 1

[youcallitwinter]

Haha, I didn't get into fandom till the mid-season hiatus in S2, but I scoured it for early fic and stuff ;)

Elena can be portrayed horribly when an author ships a pairing when the show conflicts with their chosen pairing. That is the case with every character.

I WISH THIS WASN'T TRUE, BUT IT SO IS. It's practically why I don't read any fic in this fandom. Reading S1 Damon/Elena fic where Caroline's a slut and a schemer and a total bitch who threw herself at Damon when he didn't want her at all, just makes me rage and I don't want to do that to myself. I also ship Damon/Caroline, so there is SO MUCH character assassination re: Elena and how she's jealous and bitchy, that I just cannot read. Ditto Stefan in Damon/Elena, or even Katherine in Stefan/Elena/Damon. It just reduces the choices of fic entirely. Also, for me character >>>>>> ship, and I would want them to be developed coherently far more than I'd want a ship as endgame.