I have an incredibly messed-up relationship with Damon/Caroline, because I actually ship them? Hard. And trying to reconcile that with what Damon's done to her; oh man, why do I even do this to myself? D:
This is exactly how my relationship with Damon/Elena looks like (obviously there was no rape in Damon/Elena, but there are other difficult issues), so I get what you're saying. I have nothing against Damon/Caroline itself; I just avoid reading D/C fics, because there are so many things an author can do wrong that I don't want to risk an outburst of rage. I can somehow ignore the "perfect Damon" when I'm reading some silly and bad D/E fanfic, because I just read it to relax when my brain is so tired it doesn't process anything better, but I can't do the same with Damon/Caroline, because their relationship is on a different level for me; I can't stop treating it seriously, under no circumstances. If I was sure that every Caroline/Damon writer views this ship the way you do, I wouldn't be able to stop reading those fics :).
You are right about Damon's abuse being so human! He generally tends to do all the wrong things for human reasons, doesn't he?
This is exactly how my relationship with Damon/Elena looks like.
Haha, since I ship D/E equally hard, I'm going to have to agree here!
I have nothing against Damon/Caroline itself; I just avoid reading D/C fics, because there are so many things an author can do wrong that I don't want to risk an outburst of rage.
Oh, I know, right? That is the actual worst. I think I'm beginning to turn of the opinion where I kind of accept it if the author chooses to gloss over the entire thing, or pretends that it doesn't happen or moves beyond it. Earlier, I just couldn't get past it, but considering the show itself failed to address it, I can hardly blame fanfic authors for not going into that territory. It's best they don't, instead of coming up with some magic resolution which would be way worse.
I actually don't mind anything on screen or in fic because it's a fictionalized representation, as long as the show or the person writing the fic is aware that it's a fucked up, terrifying situation. My problem lies with romanticization and the belief that he never really abused her, or it's a 'vampire thing'. I can ship them hard even after everything, because they're fictional, but that shouldn't mean I excuse the action itself, which is NOT fictional.
Long rant is long, this always triggers me, lol
You are right about Damon's abuse being so human! He generally tends to do all the wrong things for human reasons, doesn't he?
Oh, he completely does! Damon is VERY human in that way in all his psychopathness! Although in that particular D/C incident, I think he wasn't human in the 'feels too intensely, loves too much, acts too rashly' sort of way, but in a cold, deliberate way, which is why "stupid, shallow, useless" will forever be the worst Damon moment ever. I disliked him so much in it. D:
If I was sure that every Caroline/Damon writer views this ship the way you do, I wouldn't be able to stop reading those fics :)
Haha, you know, some of the absolute best fanfic I've read in this fandom is D/C which is what got me shipping them in the first place xD
I actually don't mind anything on screen or in fic because it's a fictionalized representation, as long as the show or the person writing the fic is aware that it's a fucked up, terrifying situation.
This is exactly how I see it. I mean, that's one of the reasons we have fiction, right? To be able to explore all the fuck up, and all the terror without actually hurting anybody. So I'm ok with reading D/C fics in which really bad things happen, but I don't want to read fics in which the abuse is romanticized. That's why I liked your fic so much; you write about scary, wrong and complicated things, and you force your reader to face all the horror in its entire complexity.
Earlier, I just couldn't get past it, but considering the show itself failed to address it, I can hardly blame fanfic authors for not going into that territory. It's best they don't, instead of coming up with some magic resolution which would be way worse.
I see your point :). I wrote a D/C fic once, and this was my biggest problem; I saw that the abuse was horrible, but, at the same time, it wasn't the worst thing that ever happend to Caroline (it was a s2 fic). When she was turned into a vampire, she had loads of issues that were more pressing than her post-rape trauma. So I was obsessively looking at every sentence from three different angles, because I didn't want it to seem that I'm dismissing the question of abuse, but at the same time I didn't want this story to be just about the abuse. So I can agree with you in a sense that it would be stupid if all Damon/Caroline were mainly about rape or post-rape trauma. There is more to them than just that, and every single fic doesn't have to deal with this one issue.
So I'm ok with reading D/C fics in which really bad things happen, but I don't want to read fics in which the abuse is romanticized.
Oh god, that's the absolute worst, because so many people do it and don't see anything wrong with it D: Apologism/slut shaming is also so ridiculously prevalent in this fandom. It seems to happen more so in first season Damon/Someone-other-than-Caroline fic (say first season Damon/Elena fic) where the author wants to make Caroline out to be a slut to show that Damon would obviously fall for Elena, and not the girl who totally threw herself at him and slept with him on the first date or whatever. And I'm all "Seriously? That's what you got from their scenes together?"
I wrote a D/C fic once, and this was my biggest problem; I saw that the abuse was horrible, but, at the same time, it wasn't the worst thing that ever happend to Caroline.
FIRST THINGS FIRST: LINK.
Also, I completely understand. I always contend that despite everything that keeps happening to everybody in this godforsaken town, Caroline has had it the worse than possibly anyone else. She had that abusive relationship with Damon, on the matter of which btw, Elena and Damon were kind of laughing and ~bonding over by the time of Isobel, where Damon's all "have fun with the Mystic Queen, I know I did" and Elena smiles in that oh, Damon sort of way. Which, what? YOU ARE NOT SENDING THE RIGHT MESSAGE ACROSS, SHOW.
Then she gets killed. Then she gets turned. Then she remembers everything that happened to her. Then her ex-boyfriend tries to kill her. Then she gets rejected by her best friend. Her mother refuses to acknowledge her as her daughter. She gets tortured by werewolves. The guy she risked her life for, just sort of stands and watches. Her mother and her boyfriend make plans to kill her. Her "daddy" tortures her and tells her she'll never be okay again. And now her boyfriend is in some weird sire-bond-thing with a guy trying to kill all of them.
MY BB GIRL D: *hugs her*
YOU MAKE ALL THE SENSE.
Where can one find all the awesome fanfic? :)
IF THIS IS NOT SIMPLY A QUESTION PUT TO MAKE ME HAPPY, I HAVE ALL THE RECS, GUH.
Unfinished Sympathy is my favorite fic in this entire fandom. I pimp it around so much, it probably has rug burns by now. But the first season Damon characterization is excellent, and Caroline is so ridiculously in character as well. Ngl, this is the best depiction of the effects of compulsion that I've seen, especially from the pov of the compelled. It's pretty AU, an extension of mid-season one possibly, put the plot is SO GOOD. If you're actually interested, read it and tell me what you thought :D
Of course I want to read it! It might take me a while, because I have some work to do, but I'll make sure to let you know as soon as I finish reading :).
Apologism/slut shaming is also so ridiculously prevalent in this fandom.
I wish I could say you were wrong :(.
It seems to happen more so in first season Damon/Someone-other-than-Caroline fic (say first season Damon/Elena fic) where the author wants to make Caroline out to be a slut to show that Damon would obviously fall for Elena, and not the girl who totally threw herself at him and slept with him on the first date or whatever.
RAGE!!! I don't get it, really :(. The show is so awesome in writing female characters (Elena insisting on keeping her agency, Caroline and her general awesomeness), and a good part of fandom can't recognize it, let alone appreciate it. Just... HOW???
She had that abusive relationship with Damon, on the matter of which btw, Elena and Damon were kind of laughing and ~bonding over by the time of Isobel, where Damon's all "have fun with the Mystic Queen, I know I did" and Elena smiles in that oh, Damon sort of way. Which, what? YOU ARE NOT SENDING THE RIGHT MESSAGE ACROSS, SHOW.
Oh yes, this scene was just ugly. It's totally in character for Damon to say something like that, but I could never understand Elena's behavior in this scene. Especially since it was HER who caused a scene in the beginning of s1 seconds after she noticed bite marks on Caroline's body.
Worst things always happen to Caroline, so true :(. Though it comforts me a bit that now she finally is on good terms with her mom, so despite the fucked-up situation with Tyler she at least has something solid and stable to hold on to. After what they've been through Liz will always have Caroline's back.
The fic is here, but it's my first attempt to write not only Caroline/Damon, but also Caroline at all, so now I'm kind of nervous...
Of course I want to read it! It might take me a while, because I have some work to do, but I'll make sure to let you know as soon as I finish reading.
DO NOT FEEL PRESSURED, OKAY? Haha, I'm always afraid of that. Of course you should read it when you have the time, and if you don't want to read it at all, that is fine also :D
The show is so awesome in writing female characters (Elena insisting on keeping her agency, Caroline and her general awesomeness), and a good part of fandom can't recognize it, let alone appreciate it. Just... HOW???
THESE ARE THE MYSTERIES OF THE UNIVERSE. Like, they're none of them perfect representations and they have their ~inducing feminist rage moments too, but most of the time they're so stunningly different from typical teen!Vampire!show heroines and HOW CAN ANYONE COMPLETELY NOT SEE IT? D:
It's totally in character for Damon to say something like that, but I could never understand Elena's behavior in this scene. Especially since it was HER who caused a scene in the beginning of s1 seconds after she noticed bite marks on Caroline's body.
Yeah, if they weren't addressing the issue at all, there was absolutely no need for trivializing it D: And even Elena's first "I'll report it to the sheriff" wasn't really carried forward. I think I and ever_neutral have usually held that this show is NOT good at female friendships. They're very token, as compared to the Epic Bromances. Even after Caroline was tortured, we didn't have any ~friend moments with Bonnie or Elena sitting her down and asking her how she was, or in Daddy Issues when Stefan was the initiator. This season is turning out to be REALLY GOOD in that respect, and I love that!
Don't worry, I don't feel pressured :). And if I ever do, I'll make sure to let you know, I'm not shy that way.
Feminist rage is always there, but there are ten awesome moments for every OMG RAGE moment, so I can enjoy the show and not feel guilty about it.
Even after Caroline was tortured, we didn't have any ~friend moments with Bonnie or Elena sitting her down and asking her how she was, or in Daddy Issues when Stefan was the initiator.
I just pretend that Stefan wasn't there, ok? Because this scene is one of the very few moments in TVD that literary make me cry (even looking at screencaps makes me cry...), and Caroline is so incredible there I don't even know whether I want to hug her, kiss her or worship her. I try to explain that Stefan was the initiator, because he was the one who walked Caroline home, so he was the only one who knew how bad she was. It's a sorry excuse and it doesn't work on a feminist ground at all (if my friend had just been tortured by a pack of werewolves, I'd be calling her every hour to see how she's doing, and then I'd just come over anyway...), but it makes me feel better.
I'm just waiting for all the awesome friendship moments! We totally should get more of those (and it's not only about female friendships, although I agree that there is not enough of those, and therefore they require more work now to make up for the screw-ups). To be honest, I'd be perfectly happy if TVD was a friendship&family-centric show with some love stories in the background. I need more scenes like Liz saving Caroline from the cell, or Elena talking to Jeremy the ways she sometimes did in s1, or the girls interacting, or the brothers being brothers, or... Well, everything like that. I'm a sucker for non-romantic relationships.
Oh, I know, which is why TVD is SO MUCH MORE than just another teen vampire show. I love it when women get the chance to be genuinely awesome, because that so rarely happens :s
I just pretend that Stefan wasn't there, ok? Because this scene is one of the very few moments in TVD that literary make me cry (even looking at screencaps makes me cry...), and Caroline is so incredible there I don't even know whether I want to hug her, kiss her or worship her.
That scene totally made me cry as well /no regrets, it was so incredibly amazing. And Caroline, refusing to break down in front of Stefan ("I'm not girly little Caroline anymore") and then completely breaking down in front of Bonnie and Elena, oh my god. I loved her so insanely much in that scene. And I would never take Stefan out, because THAT was the scene that made me realize just how incredible he actually is. Earlier it used to be All About Damon for me, but with this episode I could see why Elena was with Stefan. How perfect he was to go that extra mile that he absolutely didn't have to. That scene is possibly my favorite out of all TVD scenes actually!
Yeah, it's not so much about female friendships for me as well; I just the girls to have storylines apart from their boyfriends. Caroline's entire arc (except for the one-episode torture thing) was all about Tyler. She barely had any role to play in most episodes, which sucked. And Elena/Jeremy DEFINITELY needs to be explored more, because even Elena's arcs tend to be all about the Salvatores. AND STEFAN/CAROLINE PLZ, what even happened to their epic bff-ness? D:
This is exactly how my relationship with Damon/Elena looks like (obviously there was no rape in Damon/Elena, but there are other difficult issues), so I get what you're saying. I have nothing against Damon/Caroline itself; I just avoid reading D/C fics, because there are so many things an author can do wrong that I don't want to risk an outburst of rage. I can somehow ignore the "perfect Damon" when I'm reading some silly and bad D/E fanfic, because I just read it to relax when my brain is so tired it doesn't process anything better, but I can't do the same with Damon/Caroline, because their relationship is on a different level for me; I can't stop treating it seriously, under no circumstances. If I was sure that every Caroline/Damon writer views this ship the way you do, I wouldn't be able to stop reading those fics :).
You are right about Damon's abuse being so human! He generally tends to do all the wrong things for human reasons, doesn't he?
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Haha, since I ship D/E equally hard, I'm going to have to agree here!
I have nothing against Damon/Caroline itself; I just avoid reading D/C fics, because there are so many things an author can do wrong that I don't want to risk an outburst of rage.
Oh, I know, right? That is the actual worst. I think I'm beginning to turn of the opinion where I kind of accept it if the author chooses to gloss over the entire thing, or pretends that it doesn't happen or moves beyond it. Earlier, I just couldn't get past it, but considering the show itself failed to address it, I can hardly blame fanfic authors for not going into that territory. It's best they don't, instead of coming up with some magic resolution which would be way worse.
I actually don't mind anything on screen or in fic because it's a fictionalized representation, as long as the show or the person writing the fic is aware that it's a fucked up, terrifying situation. My problem lies with romanticization and the belief that he never really abused her, or it's a 'vampire thing'. I can ship them hard even after everything, because they're fictional, but that shouldn't mean I excuse the action itself, which is NOT fictional.
Long rant is long, this always triggers me, lol
You are right about Damon's abuse being so human! He generally tends to do all the wrong things for human reasons, doesn't he?
Oh, he completely does! Damon is VERY human in that way in all his psychopathness! Although in that particular D/C incident, I think he wasn't human in the 'feels too intensely, loves too much, acts too rashly' sort of way, but in a cold, deliberate way, which is why "stupid, shallow, useless" will forever be the worst Damon moment ever. I disliked him so much in it. D:
If I was sure that every Caroline/Damon writer views this ship the way you do, I wouldn't be able to stop reading those fics :)
Haha, you know, some of the absolute best fanfic I've read in this fandom is D/C which is what got me shipping them in the first place xD
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This is exactly how I see it. I mean, that's one of the reasons we have fiction, right? To be able to explore all the fuck up, and all the terror without actually hurting anybody. So I'm ok with reading D/C fics in which really bad things happen, but I don't want to read fics in which the abuse is romanticized. That's why I liked your fic so much; you write about scary, wrong and complicated things, and you force your reader to face all the horror in its entire complexity.
Earlier, I just couldn't get past it, but considering the show itself failed to address it, I can hardly blame fanfic authors for not going into that territory. It's best they don't, instead of coming up with some magic resolution which would be way worse.
I see your point :). I wrote a D/C fic once, and this was my biggest problem; I saw that the abuse was horrible, but, at the same time, it wasn't the worst thing that ever happend to Caroline (it was a s2 fic). When she was turned into a vampire, she had loads of issues that were more pressing than her post-rape trauma. So I was obsessively looking at every sentence from three different angles, because I didn't want it to seem that I'm dismissing the question of abuse, but at the same time I didn't want this story to be just about the abuse. So I can agree with you in a sense that it would be stupid if all Damon/Caroline were mainly about rape or post-rape trauma. There is more to them than just that, and every single fic doesn't have to deal with this one issue.
I hope I'm making at least some sense?
Where can one find all the awesome fanfic? :)
Reply
Oh god, that's the absolute worst, because so many people do it and don't see anything wrong with it D: Apologism/slut shaming is also so ridiculously prevalent in this fandom. It seems to happen more so in first season Damon/Someone-other-than-Caroline fic (say first season Damon/Elena fic) where the author wants to make Caroline out to be a slut to show that Damon would obviously fall for Elena, and not the girl who totally threw herself at him and slept with him on the first date or whatever. And I'm all "Seriously? That's what you got from their scenes together?"
I wrote a D/C fic once, and this was my biggest problem; I saw that the abuse was horrible, but, at the same time, it wasn't the worst thing that ever happend to Caroline.
FIRST THINGS FIRST: LINK.
Also, I completely understand. I always contend that despite everything that keeps happening to everybody in this godforsaken town, Caroline has had it the worse than possibly anyone else. She had that abusive relationship with Damon, on the matter of which btw, Elena and Damon were kind of laughing and ~bonding over by the time of Isobel, where Damon's all "have fun with the Mystic Queen, I know I did" and Elena smiles in that oh, Damon sort of way. Which, what? YOU ARE NOT SENDING THE RIGHT MESSAGE ACROSS, SHOW.
Then she gets killed. Then she gets turned. Then she remembers everything that happened to her. Then her ex-boyfriend tries to kill her. Then she gets rejected by her best friend. Her mother refuses to acknowledge her as her daughter. She gets tortured by werewolves. The guy she risked her life for, just sort of stands and watches. Her mother and her boyfriend make plans to kill her. Her "daddy" tortures her and tells her she'll never be okay again. And now her boyfriend is in some weird sire-bond-thing with a guy trying to kill all of them.
MY BB GIRL D: *hugs her*
YOU MAKE ALL THE SENSE.
Where can one find all the awesome fanfic? :)
IF THIS IS NOT SIMPLY A QUESTION PUT TO MAKE ME HAPPY, I HAVE ALL THE RECS, GUH.
Unfinished Sympathy is my favorite fic in this entire fandom. I pimp it around so much, it probably has rug burns by now. But the first season Damon characterization is excellent, and Caroline is so ridiculously in character as well. Ngl, this is the best depiction of the effects of compulsion that I've seen, especially from the pov of the compelled. It's pretty AU, an extension of mid-season one possibly, put the plot is SO GOOD. If you're actually interested, read it and tell me what you thought :D
ALSO, YOUR FIC. LINK. /cavewoman
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Apologism/slut shaming is also so ridiculously prevalent in this fandom.
I wish I could say you were wrong :(.
It seems to happen more so in first season Damon/Someone-other-than-Caroline fic (say first season Damon/Elena fic) where the author wants to make Caroline out to be a slut to show that Damon would obviously fall for Elena, and not the girl who totally threw herself at him and slept with him on the first date or whatever.
RAGE!!! I don't get it, really :(. The show is so awesome in writing female characters (Elena insisting on keeping her agency, Caroline and her general awesomeness), and a good part of fandom can't recognize it, let alone appreciate it. Just... HOW???
She had that abusive relationship with Damon, on the matter of which btw, Elena and Damon were kind of laughing and ~bonding over by the time of Isobel, where Damon's all "have fun with the Mystic Queen, I know I did" and Elena smiles in that oh, Damon sort of way. Which, what? YOU ARE NOT SENDING THE RIGHT MESSAGE ACROSS, SHOW.
Oh yes, this scene was just ugly. It's totally in character for Damon to say something like that, but I could never understand Elena's behavior in this scene. Especially since it was HER who caused a scene in the beginning of s1 seconds after she noticed bite marks on Caroline's body.
Worst things always happen to Caroline, so true :(. Though it comforts me a bit that now she finally is on good terms with her mom, so despite the fucked-up situation with Tyler she at least has something solid and stable to hold on to. After what they've been through Liz will always have Caroline's back.
The fic is here, but it's my first attempt to write not only Caroline/Damon, but also Caroline at all, so now I'm kind of nervous...
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DO NOT FEEL PRESSURED, OKAY? Haha, I'm always afraid of that. Of course you should read it when you have the time, and if you don't want to read it at all, that is fine also :D
The show is so awesome in writing female characters (Elena insisting on keeping her agency, Caroline and her general awesomeness), and a good part of fandom can't recognize it, let alone appreciate it. Just... HOW???
THESE ARE THE MYSTERIES OF THE UNIVERSE. Like, they're none of them perfect representations and they have their ~inducing feminist rage moments too, but most of the time they're so stunningly different from typical teen!Vampire!show heroines and HOW CAN ANYONE COMPLETELY NOT SEE IT? D:
It's totally in character for Damon to say something like that, but I could never understand Elena's behavior in this scene. Especially since it was HER who caused a scene in the beginning of s1 seconds after she noticed bite marks on Caroline's body.
Yeah, if they weren't addressing the issue at all, there was absolutely no need for trivializing it D: And even Elena's first "I'll report it to the sheriff" wasn't really carried forward. I think I and ever_neutral have usually held that this show is NOT good at female friendships. They're very token, as compared to the Epic Bromances. Even after Caroline was tortured, we didn't have any ~friend moments with Bonnie or Elena sitting her down and asking her how she was, or in Daddy Issues when Stefan was the initiator. This season is turning out to be REALLY GOOD in that respect, and I love that!
OFF TO READ, YAY :D
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Feminist rage is always there, but there are ten awesome moments for every OMG RAGE moment, so I can enjoy the show and not feel guilty about it.
Even after Caroline was tortured, we didn't have any ~friend moments with Bonnie or Elena sitting her down and asking her how she was, or in Daddy Issues when Stefan was the initiator.
I just pretend that Stefan wasn't there, ok? Because this scene is one of the very few moments in TVD that literary make me cry (even looking at screencaps makes me cry...), and Caroline is so incredible there I don't even know whether I want to hug her, kiss her or worship her. I try to explain that Stefan was the initiator, because he was the one who walked Caroline home, so he was the only one who knew how bad she was. It's a sorry excuse and it doesn't work on a feminist ground at all (if my friend had just been tortured by a pack of werewolves, I'd be calling her every hour to see how she's doing, and then I'd just come over anyway...), but it makes me feel better.
I'm just waiting for all the awesome friendship moments! We totally should get more of those (and it's not only about female friendships, although I agree that there is not enough of those, and therefore they require more work now to make up for the screw-ups). To be honest, I'd be perfectly happy if TVD was a friendship&family-centric show with some love stories in the background. I need more scenes like Liz saving Caroline from the cell, or Elena talking to Jeremy the ways she sometimes did in s1, or the girls interacting, or the brothers being brothers, or... Well, everything like that. I'm a sucker for non-romantic relationships.
Thank you for reading the fic :D.
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Oh, I know, which is why TVD is SO MUCH MORE than just another teen vampire show. I love it when women get the chance to be genuinely awesome, because that so rarely happens :s
I just pretend that Stefan wasn't there, ok? Because this scene is one of the very few moments in TVD that literary make me cry (even looking at screencaps makes me cry...), and Caroline is so incredible there I don't even know whether I want to hug her, kiss her or worship her.
That scene totally made me cry as well /no regrets, it was so incredibly amazing. And Caroline, refusing to break down in front of Stefan ("I'm not girly little Caroline anymore") and then completely breaking down in front of Bonnie and Elena, oh my god. I loved her so insanely much in that scene. And I would never take Stefan out, because THAT was the scene that made me realize just how incredible he actually is. Earlier it used to be All About Damon for me, but with this episode I could see why Elena was with Stefan. How perfect he was to go that extra mile that he absolutely didn't have to. That scene is possibly my favorite out of all TVD scenes actually!
Yeah, it's not so much about female friendships for me as well; I just the girls to have storylines apart from their boyfriends. Caroline's entire arc (except for the one-episode torture thing) was all about Tyler. She barely had any role to play in most episodes, which sucked. And Elena/Jeremy DEFINITELY needs to be explored more, because even Elena's arcs tend to be all about the Salvatores. AND STEFAN/CAROLINE PLZ, what even happened to their epic bff-ness? D:
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