[Camarilla] The time has come

[yokaze]

I have been a part of the local Camarilla since September 2006.  In that time, I have observed the steady, inexorable decline of membership.  Simply uttering the word "Camarilla" is enough to convince the vast majority of local gamers to stay home or find something else to do.

When you really look at it, it's easy to see why.

The Camarilla is

Comments

[ashtoreth]

It is the responsibility of the domain staff to not only be the ones who say, "no," but also the ones who say, "Yes! We can do this!" In the last few years of dropping interest, how often has the question been addressed of what is happening, why it's happening, and how to resolve it? I mean, really, honestly?

Moreover, has this question been addressed to anyone who is not on your friendslist, and therefore inclined to agree with you? Have you discussed it with the people who do play in Unconquered Sun because it is the Camarilla? I can think of several people - several people with a vested interest in the domain - who are not on livejournal but would probably like to have a say in what happens perhaps before the saber rattling gets a friendslist quorum into a tizzy.

Frankly, I'll be sad to see Unconquered Sun die. Aaron and I chose the name very specifically. It was a name that meant something, that even in the face of adversity, the domain would not merely stand, but flourish. I moved my membership to the Myst because I'm a good member of the Camarilla, and when I moved to the East Bay, I transferred my membership with it. My heart has belonged to this domain since its inception.

[demonix99]

I want more than anything than the Camarilla game locally to flourish and thrive. But the national status of the game, combined with the endless addenda and red tape. With the very dimly viewed power scale, even after this current reset, this has crippled the reputation of the Camarilla in Sonoma County.

It is a daunting reality that the Camarilla simply does not have the confidence of the local playerbase. And I frankly can't blame them for taking a dim view of the cam given its most recent directions as a club and within the story chronicle.

[kaoticrequiem]

"I want more than anything than the Camarilla game locally to flourish and thrive."

Prove it. You started a troupe game to get away from Camarilla bureaucracy. You have actively suggested tearing the local Requiem game from that same organization. These are directly antithetical to your statement here.

"With the very dimly viewed power scale, even after this current reset, this has crippled the reputation of the Camarilla in Sonoma County."

No. What you think has crippled the reputation of the Camarilla (the higher level STs in the orginization) is not only different but unrelated to the reset, which has little to do with respect or reputation.

"It is a daunting reality that the Camarilla simply does not have the confidence of the local playerbase. And I frankly can't blame them for taking a dim view of the cam given its most recent directions as a club and within the story chronicle."

Why not blame them? If you want something to succeed, make it succeed instead of complaining about it on LJ.

[demonix99]

I want the game to succeed.

I ran the requiem game for a year.

Frankly, the idea of a global chronicle is aweseome. I've played in it and I would not trade the RP I've had in that organization for anything.

I've done my part to try and make the game a success. I've spent time, money, effort and made sacrifices to try to ensure that success.

I can't blame people who I agree with. I believe that the cam as a greater organism is failing and falling apart. And I'll be sad to see it go. And I'd rather see a local game of 20+ players be awesome than the chapter of a global game sputter and struggle with 6 players on a good night.

[yokaze]

Do you want the CAM game to succeed, or do you just want to see a successful Requiem game?

[demonix99]

I really don't see that they have to be separate choices. Its the unfortunate events of this current chronicle that have made this requiem game barely tolerable to many players.

If we go out and discuss this possibility with other games and find that the game would be much more successful without the cam, we have to examine what does the cam offer us that a thriving player base cannot? and is that amount worth it?

[yokaze]

I appreciate how effectively you are playing the devil's advocate here.

The bottom line is this.

Cam benefits:

A fascinating global setting.
The ability to travel to other places and still remain in the same continuity.
Networking with gamers from around the world.

Cam drawbacks:

Harsh restrictions to local STs which severely stunts creativity.
Plodding bureaucracy which frustrates members constantly.
Hundreds of pages of new rules, most of which revolve around what you -can't- do.
A reputation in Sonoma, regardless of whether it is deserved or not, that causes 95% of local gamers to avoid it like a hooker with a rash.

Here in Sonoma County, we have a lot of gamers. With the exception of a very small number, none of those gamers are interested in the global game, or with interacting with any of the storylines or characters outside the Domain.

We are stuck with all the drawbacks of the Camarilla, and nearly nobody cares to take advantages of the benefits. The very idea that we should hold to an organizations that offers us no benefit and many drawbacks makes no logical sense.

[kaoticrequiem]

"We are stuck with all the drawbacks of the Camarilla, and nearly nobody cares to take advantages of the benefits. The very idea that we should hold to an organizations that offers us no benefit and many drawbacks makes no logical sense."

"Cam benefits:

A fascinating global setting.
The ability to travel to other places and still remain in the same continuity.
Networking with gamers from around the world. "

Don't say no benefits when you've pointed out benefits.

Especially when some members do actively participate in the global game. Hi Roo, Martin, and Brian. How are you guys?

Wait. To get to Roo's point, Brian actually has no idea that you're posting this, as he's not on LJ. Also, I'm pretty sure you didn't post this to the UnSun list, so it seems like you're not talking to the domain, only to the people who can read you.

Don't try to take this game away from people who want it here, especially when you're not going to include them in the discussion.

[yokaze]

This is not the end-all discussion. These are my thoughts on the matter. Yes, they will be brought before others as well, once I have solidified my argument. This LJ has been exceptionally helpful for that.

Additionally, I have no power to take anything away from anyone. All I can do is voice my opinion.

[demonix99]

Its a livejournal. He can post this where he wants. And if this transforms into a more active debate and discussion over the area. I'd rather the reasons be codified in a format like this first.

Don't try and make this into a 'us v them' debate. because we all DO want to see what is best for the games and players.

We are all on the same side. We want a good game. But if you are so sure that WE can solve the problem, maybe you can tell us all why the numbers for the troupe games are souring. While the games like Requiem and Changeling struggle. And Mortals and Werewolves die out before they can grow?

[ashtoreth]

I have yet to see a troupe game that doesn't create addenda for their games. Every game has house rules. The Cam's house rules match the scope of the game.

Honestly, the fault does not lay with the cam, but rather the domain's staff and players. Players get what they put into it. Staff put in a lot more with very little benefit, and this is true of all games, regardless of their affiliations. OWbN has the same problem, and again, show me a troupe game where the STs don't burn out, where the game cycle does not happen.

Frankly, the red tape is not that hard to cut through or work around. It just requires that you (using a nonpersonal second person pronoun) be moderately clever.

[martinapbalor]

This is very true. There was one instance in recent times that had lots of red tape, but that anst in question is no longer in the club.

I have told the domain time and time again all they need to do is ask (and be polite about, a failing in most gamers, especially in unsun at this time--part of my frustration being an officer of the domain)). Then there was a situation recently where we needed something from global, we asked nicely and got it in a timely manner.

[ashtoreth]

And again... this is an example that is not endemic to the Camarilla. Large scale games (I'm looking at OWbN here) have precisely the same problems, and troupe games are constantly getting bogged down by interpersonal conflicts, the most common of which involve a player asking for something rudely (or, worse, making ultimatums towards the ST staff), the ST staff getting pissed off and refusing... and, well, we've been doing this for long enough that we've seen how that particular spiral happens.

[yokaze]

To answer your points in order:

a) Yes. In my time as a Cam member, we have tried recruitment drives, we have put up flyers, we have tried touching bases with estranged gamers, we have tried bringing friends in. If you have any other ideas, by all means put voice to them. It's not that the gamers aren't out there, it's that so many flat-out refuse to do anything that is connected to the Cam, regardless of what we say to try to change their mind.

b) This entry is not friend-locked, thus it is open to people who are not on my friend list.

c) The Domain's been dead for months now. It just hasn't realize dit yet.

[ashtoreth]

A1) Run TT NWoD games at the local game store as a recruitment tactic. Invite the pretty girls in the area to sit in and pitch the cam. As long as the girls in question are reasonably articulate and are able to answer questions, this works.

A2) This takes some more effort, but there are several gaming/fan conventions in the Bay Area. Volunteer to run a Cam LARP. Liberally season it with aforementioned pretty girls. Be prepared to explain why the Camarilla is not the antichrist while simultaneously not badmouthing any other organization. It might be more directly beneficial to the San Francisco domain (being more centrally located), but gamers are remarkably willing to travel to see people they've known and met.

A3) When was the last concerted campus recruitment? At SSU? The JC? Beyond putting up fliers, I mean. Gamers are extremely undersocialized, and will rarely try out new things unless they know someone at the event or feel like they do.

B) And yet, not in a place where people who are not livejournal enabled will be able to see and respond without someone telling them or they go looking for it. Fortunately, there are enough people with differing opinions to make this an actual dialogue.

C) Games are highly cyclical, and the cam is experiencing a low point. It happens. Eventually, one of the other games will piss off the majority of its players and there will be a shift. Gamers, being the undersocialized creatures that they are, don't work through their problems with other people. They heave deep sighs and passive-aggressively poke one another until something changes - and it's usually one of them simply getting up and finding something else to do.