PSA on old-school housing policy and trends

[xxxlibris]

Via a couple of friends who have direct policy and personal experience of the upcoming changes around housing benefits, 'Big Society' plans and the like, some information for people who are going to be affected by these changes

Comments

[ultraruby]

Argh, this (by which I mean 'this new government and all the things it's doing and saying') is all makes me so angry and confused I can't even really think about it well enough to form a reasoned response.

Out Chief Exec apparently asked about how lots of the Big Society stuff would be funded and supported, given the cuts to spending generally and the likely drawbridging by local authorities etc that it'll cause. Apparently the Tory person he was talking to said that it would all be ok, because after 5 years or so 'philanthropy will kick in'. It really does seem as if they're waiting for a little batallion of grumpy but kind hearted Dickens-character men (and their time-rich wives) to trundle in sort everything out, by pure dint of their being a.) rich and b.) posh. But then if it was the case that rich posh people voluntarily gave their money away and sorted things out, surely that would already have happened? Or no, that's why it'll take 5 years, because by that time they'll be tripping over soot-stained orphans in the street and typhus will be rife again. Oh argh argh ARGH.

[valkyriekaren]

Apparently the Tory person he was talking to said that it would all be ok, because after 5 years or so 'philanthropy will kick in'.

You know in the first episode of Black Books when Manny swallows The Little Book of Calm and can only mumble platitudes like, "Why not have a relaxing bubble bath?" and "f you get angry, try a deep breathing exercise"? Well, sometimes when arch-libertarian Tories talk, it's like they've swallowed The Fountainhead.

You want to see what a country with no governmental intervention looks like? Take a trip to Somalia.

[sinsense]

Horatio Alger wrote tons and tons of youn adult books about scrappy little poor boys who bootstrap their way to the top; what's often left out of the popular memory of Alger's novels is that the hero is always helped by a philanthropic older man. It's a necessity of the "bootstrap" mythos.

[valkyriekaren]

A modern version would probably have Simon Cowell and Alan Sugar.

not defending them or anything BUT

[carsmilesteve]

won't a cap on HB reduce or at least stabalise rent pretty quickly? if landlords know they're only going to get X from people on benefits they're unlikely to ask for much more, cos they won't get it and they'd rather have amount X a month than 0 a month? and it's not like they're going to do up their flats to get a better level of punter is it?

Re: not defending them or anything BUT

[valkyriekaren]

Lots of private landlords already refuse to let to people on housing benefits anyway, and it doesn't seem to be hurting them any. This won't bring prices down, it will just create ghettos.

Re: not defending them or anything BUT

[carsmilesteve]

is that still an issue? i thought the idea of paying HB straight to clients rather than landlords was meant to get round this (although OBVIOUSLY there are an entirely different set of downsides to giving big piles of money to people who may have issues with booze and/or druqs*)

*not saying everyone on HB is a crackhead obv, but that a lot of recovering addicts will be receiving it

Re: not defending them or anything BUT

[whatsagirlgotta]

But, it also gives the tennant the power to move if the landlord in question is dodgy/presumably gives them access to a better range of options since the landlord can't hold them to ransom in the same way.

Also the fact that they're on HB, would presumably be pretty obvious in terms of getting references/proof of income which many ask for.

Re: not defending them or anything BUT

[carsmilesteve]

it also gives them the power to go and buy a massive pile of DRUQS AND BOUZE when they're in a vulnerable position... i'm not saying it's not right for some people on HB, but for it to be introduced across the board was a bit o_0, to quote people who work in the sector ;)

but, yes, cheque from the local authority isn't the only way they can tell it's HB these days, is it?

Re: not defending them or anything BUT

[whatsagirlgotta]

That's true, but then it also gives consequences etc if said crackhead chooses to do that thing, and kind of saying we don't believe x group should be allowed to make decisions/deal with responsibility feels a tad too close to let's just leave this group to rot, they can never change etc. Which seems like a worse situation to put people in, to mine liberal not specialist eyes.

Indeed, though the money being paid to the tennant means they do have the wherewithal, if the living situation is untenable to potentially move/pay for somewhere else.

Re: not defending them or anything BUT

[carsmilesteve]

well but those people need a helping hand don't they? and giving them the means to get off their faces isn't really a helping hand if they're trying to go straight, to my mind. once they've got themselves settled and a bit more sorted, yes, but dealing with Actually Having To Pay Bills And Stuff when people first leave hostels is really hard and failing has srs consequences...

Re: not defending them or anything BUT

[whatsagirlgotta]

I suppose my assumption was that you err graduated to HB, if you were ever enough in the system to have been in a hostel say. Though I don't know enough about the ins and outs of this exact situation, so I'm probably basing my ideas on a friend who used to work in mental health support, initially supporting people in a halfway house, then supporting them once they moved out into their own places. I know that level of support is probably rare, but I also think maybe erroneously based on my one attempt to claim JSA etc that you have to be reasonably together to secure those benefits in the first place, or pretty well supported, and yes you may well cock things up pretty badly, but so do a lot of people without habits, and at some point you do have to allow adults responsibility to manage their own lives.

Re: not defending them or anything BUT

[carsmilesteve]

my experience is second hand too, from my mate who works with homeless people in watford, but what he was saying is setting up someone in a flat of their own is relatively straightforward once they've decided that it's what they want, it's the keeping them there that is the b@stard hard work, because people get upset or depressed or just plain weirded out that they even deserve to have a "proper" house that it's very easy for them to just go "eff it" and get p!ssed again so giving them X hundred quid to pay rent rather than it going straight to landlord is just an additional [can't think of a better word, but it's not quite what i mean] temptation should they be struggling with the whole thing anyway.

aaaaaaaaanyway, sorry xxxlibris for diverting the topic!

Re: not defending them or anything BUT

[whatsagirlgotta]

I suppose it is off-topic, but I think hopefully it's interesting anyway.

Ah right, I see your point, though I think it's probably the way it is because education, and support to ensure people manage it would be super costly, the alternative would seem to be giving some people a hell of a lot of power to decide who is and isn't capable which seems almost as dangerous. I get the feeling it will only get worse under this government though, less support, less funding etc.

Re: not defending them or anything BUT

[carsmilesteve]

oh definitely, it's not going to get better if there's less money about, that is for certain.

i haven't got a simple solution really, but it does seem a bit harsh on some vulnerable people, especially as it seems to be couched in terms of "choice" which i'd imagine few people on HB have anyway, certainl yin terms of how We, The Employed Middle Classes would understand it...

Re: not defending them or anything BUT

[whatsagirlgotta]

Oh I know, but I don't know that no choice is better than some choice, though that level of choice is clearly going to be eroded and seems liable to increase the ghettoisation of particular areas. Then again, I've got non-employed - not-middle-class family in South Wales, who it seems to me have been utterly trapped economically, at least in part because of the last Tory governments policies.