Corporal Punishment

[xi_o_teaz]

In a rare exception that proves my normal "avoid drama at all costs" rule, I have been a part of some recent internet drama that centers around striking children. My involvement started out with some admittedly heated replies* on my part in a couple of posts in sammaelhain's lj, both in his post on how The word "spanking" is a mystification... and More On

Comments

[lupagreenwolf]

I strongly proclaim that striking another human being--let alone a child--is never, in any way, justified.

Should I assume that consensual actions, such as those in BDSM, are not included in this comment?

[lupagreenwolf]

Clarification--consensual actions between adults.

[xi_o_teaz]

Given the topic and what prompted this post, this is in reference to adults and children, really. I only spank girls who've been truly naughty and beg for it ;-)

LOL

[lupagreenwolf]

*snerk* Okay. Figured I'd ask, just to be sure, even though I was reasonably certain you weren't talking about the ,i>fun kind of consensual spanking.

[ranger_rick]

Whatever, another topic where people try to make ultimate conclusions out of something that varies so greatly in practice that it's just foolish.

And there IS a profound difference between spanking and hitting as the words are commonly used. The greatest kind of difference, intent and motivation.

I watch politically correct parents beg their children to behave in public while the kids prove decisively who is in control. There may be many ways to deal with this and I can assure you that smacking the shit out of them would be one good way.

I also note that while abusive striking of children may be up (many factors could be discussed here), general, sane spanking as a disciplinary method is down because of the stigma put on it now. I also note that kids and young adults are far less impressive in many key ways that seem to reflect this trend.

[xi_o_teaz]

Whatever, another topic where people try to make ultimate conclusions out of something that varies so greatly in practice that it's just foolish.

I completely agree that every child and situation is different. And as a rule, I try and avoid "absolute" statements. But I've made one, and I continue to defend it, so there.

X-b

And there IS a profound difference between spanking and hitting as the words are commonly used. The greatest kind of difference, intent and motivation.

Of course there is a difference! That doesn't change the moral justification of such, for people who are interested in such things (which, BTW, I am really not).

I watch politically correct parents beg their children to behave in public while the kids prove decisively who is in control.That is the other extreme, agreed. Had I not had the job I did and I became a parent, I probably would have been one of them. Fortunately for me, my education and (primarily) my experiences at the Psych Ward gave me a crash course in meeting this happy medium. I admit that

spanking/restraints = bad, srly?

[rawmr]

Well I hate to get serious in lew of lupabitchy's comments, but this is a grand misconception. Whereas a strong individual well schooled or inately in touch with the subconscious and its functions can use words and gestures to great effect (and precious few of these can be found anywhere), even the best words can't always take the place of inflicting something like a beating for well deserved reasons, and is going to be right on par with "grounding" a child to their room for extended periods for effectiveness. Heck, my folks were old-school on this and believe me, I'd rather have the beating than the grounding anytime

Re: spanking/restraints = bad, srly?

[heron61]

even the best words can't always take the place of inflicting something like a beating for well deserved reasons

No child deserves to be beaten, in fact I'd go so far as to argue that no person (who doesn't wish it) deserves to be beaten. Violence ultimately solves nothing and violence against children is nothing more or less than vile. There are plenty of children who grow up well adjusted and happy without being beaten and no amount of examples of bad parenting that don't involve beating children will change that fact. Beating children is clearly not necessary to raise well adjusted children, and it's wrong. Obviously, many people need better skills at managing children, but beating children is not one of those skills.

But giving a kid a well deserved smack upside the head is not.

Comments like that make me sincerely hope that you have not bred.

Re: spanking/restraints = bad, srly?

[rawmr]

I've none of my own, but I've been largely responsible for the [successful] rearing of 7 kids, all originally troubled from broken homes, one with autism who would be institutionalized now instead of getting accepted to an accelerated-learning high school if not for my guidance. In all love and kindness, you think I care squat for your opinion?

[lupagreenwolf]

One thing that's really amazed me, in my grad work, has been just how fascinating developmental psychology is, and how much better I understand how kids work. I still have no interest in having kids, but if I changed my mind (probably by going insane), I would most definitely want to read up on folks like Bowlby, Ainsworth, Erikson and others before breeding. I also think that free courses in developmental psych should be made available to would-be parents.

[xi_o_teaz]

I couldn't agree any more with damn near every word of that comment (except for the fact that I'm not in grad school, that is ;-)

Hell, I think that courses on parenting should be required by would-be parents, but that opens up a whole 'nuther can of worms for which I sadly do not have any great answers. So I will satisfy myself with railing against striking children for any reason ;-) Because I know from personal experience that it is never, ever "necessary", and that it does far more harm than good in the long run.

[primaldog]

how much better I understand how kids work.

I'll never forget my child psych classes when I was going for my job certification requirements. Fascinating stuff. Even more eye-opening when I had to volunteer at daycares for the first time. Holy crap! lol.

I think, after this job, if I go back to working with children, it'll be back in the nature camp/nature center format. I really did love that the best. Its especially enlightening to see the reactions of the inner city kids, who've never seen a ratsnake before, for example.

[rawmr]

"my then-girlfriend used to cry about the times I'd come home with bruises, cuts, and other injuries I endured simply from trying to keep people safe at my job"

The autistic one I mentioned was physically violent, built like a fire plug, and very adept at kicking for the crotch. Even with my martial training the little dickens would sometimes catch me by surprise during a tantrum. It was her only move fortunately. I tried to teach her boxing eventually, her arms being long and very strong, but she just couldn't get it. She just had that one innate sense of where to put a foot to hurt someone.

[xi_o_teaz]

I would often (and still do) refer to my job as "Martial Arts Practice". At the dojo, people pull punches--at the Psych Ward, they come at you with (forgive the saying) "retard strength", like goddamn berserkers.

2 of the greatest things I got (that I needed) from that position were a much better appreciation of how to healthfully Hold Boundaries (something many liberals like myself could use a crash course on), and physical Self-Defense.