NLP & Magick
Q&A month, round 1
tao_ov_dreaming asks a truly great question:
To what extent, if any, do you think that NLP renders most magick obsolete (for example invocation being replaced by parts installation)? Or do you think that much of NLP is merely magical technique reframed?
I hope I can do these questions justice. It's funny you ask, because I've been asked this question before, and it's high time I answer it. Before getting into this, I think it wise to remind that both of these terms--"NLP" and "Magick"--mean a great many things to a great many people, the latter particularly. The best way to answer these questions would be to examine the similarities and differences betwixt NLP and Magick:
Both NLP & Magick, as already mentioned, are intensely Pragmatic. They are both very Results oriented, and willing to change and readily adapt to help in the acquisition of goals for their practitioners. For this reason, both NLP & Magick are often looked down upon to varying extents by more orthodox members of their respective disciplines (e.g., psychology & theology). Practitioners of both NLP & Magick are often quite experimental in their approaches, using a "do whatever works" mentality. This is no surprise, given that both NLP & Magick are specifically Tools for Change.
Both NLP & Magick are very Phenomenalogical in their approach. Without getting into any silly epistemological debates, they treat the Subjective Experience of the patient as paramount and work with that Experience to cause Change. Metaphors, Myths, & Stories are given extreme importance, as it is believed that these patterns can strongly influence one's Experiences of life. I have heard it stated that "Magick is Applied Mythology", whereas NLP is a Tool for what I call "Mastery of the Subjective". I sometimes see human beings as existing within an unknowable Void with only our 5 Senses as Reflective Doorways to Objective Empirical Reality**. In many ways, even if only received "internally", we can still codify all of our Experiences, Memories, etc. via the 5 Senses and their subModalities.
"NLP is the Vajrayana of Psychology" is a favorite quote of mine. The most obvious connection between NLP & Tantra would be the emphasis in both on creating intensely sensual Experiences. In NLP, they refer to the 5 Senses as the "Modalities", aka VAKOG, and many NLP practices involve working with our internal representational systems. In many esoteric Eastern practices, much attention is paid to regulating the 5 Gates of Sensory Perception. Thus whereas in a Tantric Ritual you may have strong smells, sounds, bright colors, intense visualizations and the like, you often find very similar sensory stimulus overload in many NLP practices, most notably the Swish Pattern.
Magickal alphabets are a mainstay of Magickal practices, whether that alphabet be one of the many Rune sets, the Tarot, Hebrew & the QBLH, etc. NLP treats everyday language as an intensely magickal language, and both NLP & Magick. Both NLP & Magick do lots of esoteric work (at least to outsiders) with their respective languages, using the languages themselves to truly shape and form the desired Changes in Reality.
NLP & Magick both work with powers that are either unconscious (in NLP) or accessed via non-ordinary states (in Magick). Both NLP & Magick work with Trance states, seeing them as essential to successful Change. Magick will use all manner of Altered States of Consciousness--often, the further from "baseline", the better. Thanks to sources like memetics, advertising, Milton Erikson, and the newest researches into the science of Consciousness, we now know that people are more readily influenced much closer to their standard "baseline" State of Consciousness than we used to think, and NLP doesn't require deep states of trance to achieve its effects.
NLP works with various levels of Association and Dissociation, whereas Magick often works with various levels of Identies. As you mentioned, Invocation and Parts Installation can have nearly similar Results in changing the recipient internally. The side-effects between these two practices may be wholly different, though. Which I think brings us to some of the differences of NLP & Magick, differences I like to call "Flavour".
Often there are many Tools that will accomplish similar Results, just in their own particular way, with their own set of pros & cons, etc. When comparing the differences between NLP & Magick for a post-modern Westerner, NLP has several advantages over Magick. NLP, via its association with the greater scientific field of Psychology, is much more acceptable both more generally in social use, but also often arouses less "psychic censor" activity than many Magickal Acts can. Since NLP is more socially acceptable, it is easier to bill for than Magickal acts. To most of Westerners, NLP just seems to make more sense than Magick. NLP can be more self-empowering than some Magickal practices that rely on the whim of external forces & beings-e.g., rather than "wondering if the spirits will respond to our plea", you just repeat the NLP technique until it works. NLP is based more off the Psychological and Informational Models of Magick than the Energy or Spirit Models of Magick (which are more likely to be closer to what most people think of re: "Magick"). One of the differences between these 2 pairings of Models is that the latter tends to require more expenditure of a finite resource like energy, whereas the former can simply be repeated and replicated until success is achieved. The benefits of this small difference cannot be overestimated, particularly when trying to do personal work at the end of a long and exhausting week. Plus, using the Nervous System itself as a keyboard to the self has this way of being able to insert all sorts of commands by the properly trained Meta-Programmer.
On the flip side, perhaps because of the expenditure of (energy) found in the more common Energy & Spirit Models of Magick, these practices can often be much more experientially intense, and therefore able to create lasting Change, than NLP. As intense (particularly for a subfield of Psychology) as NLP can be, I think that Magickal Practices tend to be much more extreme. There are 2 Paths to Change--Repetition (quantity) and Trauma (quality). Magick has the one-time, "I can't believe I survived that" intensity that I've rarely seen in NLP*** (partially because NLP doesn't really see this level of intensity as necessary for Results--again, very Pragmatic). Magick seems to have much more in the way of "surprises", as working with Spirits, Gods, and other discarnate personalities can do. This can be both "good" and "bad", but doesn't seem to be as commonly found in NLP. Magick, being esoteric and occult already, is free to utilize Tools & Techniques that are socially abhorrent--indeed, this is even encouraged! NLP, however, is often much too business-oriented to want to be too associated with anything "crazy" that might hurt their bottom line. Magick, by its virtue as being one of the oldest and universal Human Technologies via Shamanism, has literally aeons of evidence for successful Technique. NLP, by virtue of its newness, still has much, much growing and maturing to do, and I think that there are some Practices found in NLP that are silly, unnecessarily redundant, or not taken nearly far enough. These will all get trimmed and fleshed out, respectively, in the coming decades as NLP is further refined.
So, to get to your original questions, I'd say that I don't think that Magick could ever become "obsolete". I think, if anything, NLP could be considered a subset of Magick, utilizing a very post-modern set of guidelines for Mastering the Subjective World. I don't know that I'd say that NLP is "magick reframed", although NLP uses many classic Shamanic Techniques, particularly with words and storytelling. I do think that most all Magickal Results can also be attained via NLP. Personally, I use them both together to compliment one another. For example, I will Magickally Charge a meme. Or I might come up with a Sigil to ensure a particular bit of personal re-Programming sticks this time. I will often re-in-force (via NLP techniques) Magickal Sigils or other Magickal Workings. I use NLP Anchors to quickly Trigger various Trance States, both Magickal & Mundane. I use NLP reinforcement and repetition for Creating additions to my Magickal Alphabet of Desire. Etc.
* NLP itself has grown exponentially in the past 30 years. Due to its intensely pragmatic approach, NLP has also grown to include a great many practices. I have my own particular aspects of NLP that I don't like, and ones that I've modified. I'm in the process of trying to come up with more solid theories & writing on what I've termed "NeuroLogick", which blends NLP & Magick, but more on that later. For all the change NLP has undergone during its short existence, it is nothing compared to what has been referred to across time across the globe under the banner, "Magick". The most succinct definition that I can think of for Magick would be "using the 'Other Worlds' to affect the Physical World". No single definition could possibly contain all of what "Magick" encompasses, but this gives a broad enough idea. I really like Peter Carrol's 5-fold categorization, including Inspiration, Invocation, Evocation, Divination, & Enchantment, and I think that most Magickal Operations could fit into one of these categories. I will mention various Magickal practices as they seem relevant to NLP.
** I won't argue that there can seem to be many more channels for incoming information, particularly when we talk about via Magickal means. NLP generally focuses on the 5 VAKOG Senses, and being that these seem to be our only Physical Senses, I use this as a convenient metaphorical number.
*** Although it should be mentioned that one of my most intense life-experiences was the direct Result of my NLP training. As part of our graduation from Neuro-Associative Conditioning (the official title of the form of NLP I'm certified in), we did a Firewalk. I did the 45-foot Firewalk--the longest they had. I felt indescribable when I got to the other side of that.
Thank you for the very thought-provoking question. I enjoyed writing that out. Just a reminder:
This is still Question and Answer month all March long, so feel free to ask more Questions!
"Know Thy Selves"
tao_ov_dreaming asks a truly great question:
To what extent, if any, do you think that NLP renders most magick obsolete (for example invocation being replaced by parts installation)? Or do you think that much of NLP is merely magical technique reframed?
I hope I can do these questions justice. It's funny you ask, because I've been asked this question before, and it's high time I answer it. Before getting into this, I think it wise to remind that both of these terms--"NLP" and "Magick"--mean a great many things to a great many people, the latter particularly. The best way to answer these questions would be to examine the similarities and differences betwixt NLP and Magick:
Both NLP & Magick, as already mentioned, are intensely Pragmatic. They are both very Results oriented, and willing to change and readily adapt to help in the acquisition of goals for their practitioners. For this reason, both NLP & Magick are often looked down upon to varying extents by more orthodox members of their respective disciplines (e.g., psychology & theology). Practitioners of both NLP & Magick are often quite experimental in their approaches, using a "do whatever works" mentality. This is no surprise, given that both NLP & Magick are specifically Tools for Change.
Both NLP & Magick are very Phenomenalogical in their approach. Without getting into any silly epistemological debates, they treat the Subjective Experience of the patient as paramount and work with that Experience to cause Change. Metaphors, Myths, & Stories are given extreme importance, as it is believed that these patterns can strongly influence one's Experiences of life. I have heard it stated that "Magick is Applied Mythology", whereas NLP is a Tool for what I call "Mastery of the Subjective". I sometimes see human beings as existing within an unknowable Void with only our 5 Senses as Reflective Doorways to Objective Empirical Reality**. In many ways, even if only received "internally", we can still codify all of our Experiences, Memories, etc. via the 5 Senses and their subModalities.
"NLP is the Vajrayana of Psychology" is a favorite quote of mine. The most obvious connection between NLP & Tantra would be the emphasis in both on creating intensely sensual Experiences. In NLP, they refer to the 5 Senses as the "Modalities", aka VAKOG, and many NLP practices involve working with our internal representational systems. In many esoteric Eastern practices, much attention is paid to regulating the 5 Gates of Sensory Perception. Thus whereas in a Tantric Ritual you may have strong smells, sounds, bright colors, intense visualizations and the like, you often find very similar sensory stimulus overload in many NLP practices, most notably the Swish Pattern.
Magickal alphabets are a mainstay of Magickal practices, whether that alphabet be one of the many Rune sets, the Tarot, Hebrew & the QBLH, etc. NLP treats everyday language as an intensely magickal language, and both NLP & Magick. Both NLP & Magick do lots of esoteric work (at least to outsiders) with their respective languages, using the languages themselves to truly shape and form the desired Changes in Reality.
NLP & Magick both work with powers that are either unconscious (in NLP) or accessed via non-ordinary states (in Magick). Both NLP & Magick work with Trance states, seeing them as essential to successful Change. Magick will use all manner of Altered States of Consciousness--often, the further from "baseline", the better. Thanks to sources like memetics, advertising, Milton Erikson, and the newest researches into the science of Consciousness, we now know that people are more readily influenced much closer to their standard "baseline" State of Consciousness than we used to think, and NLP doesn't require deep states of trance to achieve its effects.
NLP works with various levels of Association and Dissociation, whereas Magick often works with various levels of Identies. As you mentioned, Invocation and Parts Installation can have nearly similar Results in changing the recipient internally. The side-effects between these two practices may be wholly different, though. Which I think brings us to some of the differences of NLP & Magick, differences I like to call "Flavour".
Often there are many Tools that will accomplish similar Results, just in their own particular way, with their own set of pros & cons, etc. When comparing the differences between NLP & Magick for a post-modern Westerner, NLP has several advantages over Magick. NLP, via its association with the greater scientific field of Psychology, is much more acceptable both more generally in social use, but also often arouses less "psychic censor" activity than many Magickal Acts can. Since NLP is more socially acceptable, it is easier to bill for than Magickal acts. To most of Westerners, NLP just seems to make more sense than Magick. NLP can be more self-empowering than some Magickal practices that rely on the whim of external forces & beings-e.g., rather than "wondering if the spirits will respond to our plea", you just repeat the NLP technique until it works. NLP is based more off the Psychological and Informational Models of Magick than the Energy or Spirit Models of Magick (which are more likely to be closer to what most people think of re: "Magick"). One of the differences between these 2 pairings of Models is that the latter tends to require more expenditure of a finite resource like energy, whereas the former can simply be repeated and replicated until success is achieved. The benefits of this small difference cannot be overestimated, particularly when trying to do personal work at the end of a long and exhausting week. Plus, using the Nervous System itself as a keyboard to the self has this way of being able to insert all sorts of commands by the properly trained Meta-Programmer.
On the flip side, perhaps because of the expenditure of (energy) found in the more common Energy & Spirit Models of Magick, these practices can often be much more experientially intense, and therefore able to create lasting Change, than NLP. As intense (particularly for a subfield of Psychology) as NLP can be, I think that Magickal Practices tend to be much more extreme. There are 2 Paths to Change--Repetition (quantity) and Trauma (quality). Magick has the one-time, "I can't believe I survived that" intensity that I've rarely seen in NLP*** (partially because NLP doesn't really see this level of intensity as necessary for Results--again, very Pragmatic). Magick seems to have much more in the way of "surprises", as working with Spirits, Gods, and other discarnate personalities can do. This can be both "good" and "bad", but doesn't seem to be as commonly found in NLP. Magick, being esoteric and occult already, is free to utilize Tools & Techniques that are socially abhorrent--indeed, this is even encouraged! NLP, however, is often much too business-oriented to want to be too associated with anything "crazy" that might hurt their bottom line. Magick, by its virtue as being one of the oldest and universal Human Technologies via Shamanism, has literally aeons of evidence for successful Technique. NLP, by virtue of its newness, still has much, much growing and maturing to do, and I think that there are some Practices found in NLP that are silly, unnecessarily redundant, or not taken nearly far enough. These will all get trimmed and fleshed out, respectively, in the coming decades as NLP is further refined.
So, to get to your original questions, I'd say that I don't think that Magick could ever become "obsolete". I think, if anything, NLP could be considered a subset of Magick, utilizing a very post-modern set of guidelines for Mastering the Subjective World. I don't know that I'd say that NLP is "magick reframed", although NLP uses many classic Shamanic Techniques, particularly with words and storytelling. I do think that most all Magickal Results can also be attained via NLP. Personally, I use them both together to compliment one another. For example, I will Magickally Charge a meme. Or I might come up with a Sigil to ensure a particular bit of personal re-Programming sticks this time. I will often re-in-force (via NLP techniques) Magickal Sigils or other Magickal Workings. I use NLP Anchors to quickly Trigger various Trance States, both Magickal & Mundane. I use NLP reinforcement and repetition for Creating additions to my Magickal Alphabet of Desire. Etc.
* NLP itself has grown exponentially in the past 30 years. Due to its intensely pragmatic approach, NLP has also grown to include a great many practices. I have my own particular aspects of NLP that I don't like, and ones that I've modified. I'm in the process of trying to come up with more solid theories & writing on what I've termed "NeuroLogick", which blends NLP & Magick, but more on that later. For all the change NLP has undergone during its short existence, it is nothing compared to what has been referred to across time across the globe under the banner, "Magick". The most succinct definition that I can think of for Magick would be "using the 'Other Worlds' to affect the Physical World". No single definition could possibly contain all of what "Magick" encompasses, but this gives a broad enough idea. I really like Peter Carrol's 5-fold categorization, including Inspiration, Invocation, Evocation, Divination, & Enchantment, and I think that most Magickal Operations could fit into one of these categories. I will mention various Magickal practices as they seem relevant to NLP.
** I won't argue that there can seem to be many more channels for incoming information, particularly when we talk about via Magickal means. NLP generally focuses on the 5 VAKOG Senses, and being that these seem to be our only Physical Senses, I use this as a convenient metaphorical number.
*** Although it should be mentioned that one of my most intense life-experiences was the direct Result of my NLP training. As part of our graduation from Neuro-Associative Conditioning (the official title of the form of NLP I'm certified in), we did a Firewalk. I did the 45-foot Firewalk--the longest they had. I felt indescribable when I got to the other side of that.
Thank you for the very thought-provoking question. I enjoyed writing that out. Just a reminder:
This is still Question and Answer month all March long, so feel free to ask more Questions!
"Know Thy Selves"